Andy Posted March 25, 2007 Report Share Posted March 25, 2007 DON Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapshot 3 Posted March 25, 2007 Report Share Posted March 25, 2007 (edited) Admit it Rappers you love the contentious subjects just like the rest of us.... Personally I love the old bikes and as you say for safety reason we need certain elements to change. so where do you draw a line. I agree with the sentiment that the bike must, to all intent, look similar to what it did 1965, slimline Ariels, heavily modified Cubs, BSA's etc etc have no place in this group but you do have to admire the engineering involved. However, I feel we have to have a level playing field and at the moment we don't have that, have we ever?? Trials like the P65 in Kinlochleven should have a level playing field and I would fully agree that the committee needs to create a set of groundrules regarding bike spec, not fun and a nightmare to police but I think it has to be done. Edited March 25, 2007 by Slapshot 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted March 25, 2007 Report Share Posted March 25, 2007 You can admire the engineering but thats not the point. They put rules in F1 to stop the teams with the most money producing the most competitive cars and this isn't no different. You only have to chat to one of the guys with a slick bike and if they tell you what they really have spent then its 10k+ in some cases. I reckon it could easily be much more than that depending on how far you go. Then of course it becomes a sport for the ones with money and I thought trials is for the peeps without lots of money ? anyway, by definition pre-65 will eventually die as the bikes get older and end up in collections and the next aged generation (twinshock's) become the oldest class so does it really matter? IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilco Posted March 25, 2007 Report Share Posted March 25, 2007 From what i gather the pre 65's have been messed about with because they've been allowed to be messed with as simple as that,just like the way the twinshock's are now starting to be messed around with, there starting to be allowed to do so. My attitude to thing's now is "Ball's" to it, let them mess with them,what's going to be worth the most later in life im guessing the bike in it's original state will be worth the most. I'd like a pre 65 one day,i'd pay top dollar for an original bike,i would'nt even consider buying a messed about one no matter how well's it's been done just because of the fact it's not a bike of it's time. Sometime's i wonder if us trial's people are a little bit too laid back for our own good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpa3 Posted March 25, 2007 Report Share Posted March 25, 2007 Even if there were hard and fast rules govening pre-65 machines, how many people would be able/prpeared to enforce them at a trial? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilco Posted March 25, 2007 Report Share Posted March 25, 2007 It's to late to govern rule's,the horse is out and running. rule's should have been set on the change over to twinshock's,but the right people did'nt look ahead as usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ask greeves Posted March 25, 2007 Report Share Posted March 25, 2007 (edited) Young men produce the male hormone prosdogen, this has the effect of buying the latest model trials bikes, doing bunny hops, wheelies, and attempting super hard sections and partying till all hours, all to impress the young ladies. When you reach the age of around 32 the prosdogen changes to a thick oily substance, not unlike SAE 10 as used in gearboxes, this has the effect of limiting your life style to spending many hours in a cold and lonely excistence, in the garage, tinkering with the old pre 65 or twinshock, trying to excite the old grey matter...oh hum....back to the garage. Edited March 25, 2007 by ask greeves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumpy Posted March 26, 2007 Report Share Posted March 26, 2007 The essentials of a pre65 bike should be: pre65 engine, drum brakes, cable clutch and twin shocks. Anything else is not really important. The main problem with pre65 trials in my view is the younger riders competing. Dont get me wrong I dont think they shouldn't be allowed - just in a seperate class. There should be a minimum age requirement to challenge for the main award. Forget about the eligibility of the machine because as Mike put, there is no way a bike can be 100% genuine pre65. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boofont Posted March 26, 2007 Report Share Posted March 26, 2007 The main problem with pre65 trials in my view is the younger riders competing. Dont get me wrong I dont think they shouldn't be allowed - just in a seperate class. There should be a minimum age requirement to challenge for the main award. I understand your sentiment but realisticly this is unfair. Furthermore, there is many older riders out there that can ride extremely well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie prescott Posted March 26, 2007 Report Share Posted March 26, 2007 Hi Guys. Look, when I first started to ride trials bike's in 1960. I first had to build a bike out of a old 8e engined James that I bought for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted March 26, 2007 Report Share Posted March 26, 2007 The main problem with pre65 trials in my view is the younger riders competing. Dont get me wrong I dont think they shouldn't be allowed - just in a seperate class. There should be a minimum age requirement to challenge for the main award. I understand your sentiment but realisticly this is unfair. Furthermore, there is many older riders out there that can ride extremely well! Hmmm. You cant, unless on legal grounds, discriminate on grounds of age and to be truthful why would you want to? The future of pre65 trials depends on new and younger blood coming into this branch of the sport. Us old guys aint getting any younger. No the problem isnt the age of the competitor as much as the way that the younger element ride. As long as the Trial is run under traditional No Stop rules and the sections are laid out accordingly then the "modern" techniques that any younger element will want to bring with them will be of no benefit. We should welcome any new converts to pre65 of whatever age. The main reason, coming back to Mike Rapleys post, for the extensive modification of pre65 bikes was and is the severity of the sections which are far tighter than the bikes were originally designed for. Keep the sections wide and open and welcome all comers whatever their age. the younger ones usually bring parents along which are potential observers which we are all desperate for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpa3 Posted March 26, 2007 Report Share Posted March 26, 2007 The flaw in that argument is that riders like to win. Make the sections easy and wide and you don't need a trick bike to get through, but having the best bike will help a rider win. Very easy sections mean that organisers are then faced with the problem of perhaps having more than one person on no marks lost. In our classic trial, we aim to do just that. We can still get a result by having a timed special test to use as a tie breaker. Naturally this means that the whole trial is almost always decided on this one 30 second bit of riding. Not ideal, but the only other option is to make the sections harder or to apply the (whichever) rules to limit the bikes. Which takes us nicely back to the opening post.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 The main problem with pre65 trials in my view is the younger riders competing. Dont get me wrong I dont think they shouldn't be allowed - just in a seperate class. There should be a minimum age requirement to challenge for the main award. I understand your sentiment but realisticly this is unfair. Furthermore, there is many older riders out there that can ride extremely well! Hmmm. You cant, unless on legal grounds, discriminate on grounds of age and to be truthful why would you want to? The future of pre65 trials depends on new and younger blood coming into this branch of the sport. Us old guys aint getting any younger. No the problem isnt the age of the competitor as much as the way that the younger element ride. As long as the Trial is run under traditional No Stop rules and the sections are laid out accordingly then the "modern" techniques that any younger element will want to bring with them will be of no benefit. We should welcome any new converts to pre65 of whatever age. The main reason, coming back to Mike Rapleys post, for the extensive modification of pre65 bikes was and is the severity of the sections which are far tighter than the bikes were originally designed for. Keep the sections wide and open and welcome all comers whatever their age. the younger ones usually bring parents along which are potential observers which we are all desperate for Ahhh, you can write non contentious and actually quite sensible posts then OTF Makes sense to me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinnied Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 (edited) Very easy sections mean that organisers are then faced with the problem of perhaps having more than one person on no marks lost. And what is the problem with that, just think how the lads at the bottom of the field are feeling, its nice to be able to get through sections, and maybe, maybe one time you might get a clean Vinnie Edited March 27, 2007 by Vinnied Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpa3 Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 Very easy sections mean that organisers are then faced with the problem of perhaps having more than one person on no marks lost. And what is the problem with that, just think how the lads at the bottom of the field are feeling, its nice to be able to get through sections, and maybe, maybe one time you might get a clean Exactly. Which is why, as I mentioned, that we aim to do that at our classic trial. However- This does mean that the result is usually decided by a 30 second special test. Not ideal but better than beating up the bottom 33% of the entry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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