Tlr 200 Reflex

[copemech]

Are they any good?

[muddytires]

I love mine ! A Reflex in stock form for trials is not ideal but with a few modifications it is probably one of the most competetive twinshocks out there.

Removing all the electrical road gear lightens the bike alot. I added a fiberglass tank/seat unit, reworked the shocks and forks to get a little more bounce: replaced the front sprocket with a 10 tooth ; added some good tires, added and lowered some wider footpegs for better balancing. I also port and polished the head and opened up the carb for a lot more snappy motor.

The bike will climb almost anything. I posted some pics in the classic trials forum a couple of days ago. Very glad i started this project as it turned out to be a very fun bike.

[mcman56]

Comming from a modern bike, your first impression will be that a Reflex can not do anything. However, if you spend some time on one you will find that they are fairly capable..... but different. It takes a different riding style and for me a little time to adapt. One person described the Reflex as being analog where modern bikes are digital. There are only two areas where it really seems to lack. The first is sections where you need momentum to get over something followed by an immediate need to almost stop and set up for something else. I really feel the weight of the bike in that start/ stop/ start situation. The second is times when you would like instant power. Everything happens a little slower on a Reflex....but it does allow time to correct mistakes before they become crashes. It is quiet, goes a long way on a tank of gas and is the perfect Rubicon bike.

I run a 9 tooth front sprocket, stiffer fork springs, fork brace, advanced cam timing, bored carb, real trials tires and proper jetting. Lower gearing makes the biggest difference. The others are more minor tweaks.

[zippy]

I have an 86 Reflex that my dad used for parades and shows to show what trials is. Unfortunately knee injuries have retired him from riding. I like the Reflex, true the stock form is poor for trials and poor for street, a few mods and you can have a decent bike for either. But they do make a nice trail bike in stock form. Biff rode this Reflex in a TI event in Ohio last November. All we did was remove the mirrors. Full lights, original tires, and about 80 miles to a tank of gas. He did very well in the Sportsman class with it and was able to do some kick turns and such. Definately a fun machine.

[muddytires]

Mcman, Did the cam timing advance make a good difference to the motor? I rebuilt my motor with a wiseco piston which has a little more compression , bored the carb to about a 24mm and port and polished the head and intake. I have to use a higher octane gas so it doesn't ping. Sometimes it will knock a little when hot and under load. I was wondering if doing a cam sprocket advance might help with this. And also how you did it ?

[brian r]

Muddy Tires, you can get an adjustable cam sprocket from Parts Unlimited.(cheap)

Advancing the cam should help the bottom end power. It does on race cars.

Why isn't this on the Honda forum Cope!!!

Edited May 10, 2007 by Brian R

[copemech]

Brian, there are TWO nice examples on ebay at the moment. I was looking for more unbiased opinions of the bikes as I have never ridden one. I think it takes a bit of work to make a Reflex into a real trials bike.

Doubt I want one that badly, cute but?

[zippy]

copemech Posted Today, 12:20 AM

Brian, there are TWO nice examples on ebay at the moment. I was looking for more unbiased opinions of the bikes as I have never ridden one. I think it takes a bit of work to make a Reflex into a real trials bike.

Doubt I want one that badly, cute but?

Copemech,

Yep would take a bit of work,

I tend to think of mine as more of a novelty, fun to ride, kinda oddball machine, plus mine has the previously mentioned sentimental value.

[mcman56]

Mcman, Did the cam timing advance make a good difference to the motor? I rebuilt my motor with a wiseco piston which has a little more compression , bored the carb to about a 24mm and port and polished the head and intake. I have to use a higher octane gas so it doesn't ping. Sometimes it will knock a little when hot and under load. I was wondering if doing a cam sprocket advance might help with this. And also how you did it ?

I used a Parts Unlimited adjustable sprocket from Dennis Kirk. If I remember correctly it was listed for an ATC200 and was about $8. First I tried to check how accurate the existing timing was to the specs in a Clymer manual. The frame prevented totally proper placing of a dial indicatior but it looked to be 2 degrees retarded....probably chain stretch. I think I set it to 6 degrees advanced. (I can verify if you are interested.) With that little side cover it was very easy to do. The sprocket comes with multiple hole patterns so it would also be easy to experiment with different timing. You could also just file slots in your exsiting sprocket.

I had bored the carb first by reshaping the engine side and making the oval taller. Keihin machined the same castings into 24mm versions and I basically coppied their design. The only difference is that the engine side taper on mine is a true cone rather than the more complex curve on the Keihin. Anyway....the carb gave a big boost to full throttle power but did not affect part throttle operation. The cam timing change added bottom end snap..like when blipping the throttle to go over a log. It also took away a good portion of the top end power that the carb mod added. Basically, it was a trade of top end power for bottom end power. For trials, it is a nice improvement.

[muddytires]

I did the carburetor bore mod , which i read on an old post you must have wrote. Also opened up the manifold and port and polished the intake.

Thanks for that tip ! , very pleased with it. I will try the adjustable sprocket and see if that solves the problems of pinging probably due to preignition with the higher compression piston i used.

I,ve had alot of fun building my bike , making improvements for better trials riding. Still on my list to do is a alloy wes exhaust or similar, a stonger alloy skid plate and to lace up the wheels with some good alloy rims. The only thing i don't like about the bike are the drum brakes, which will stop me ok, but almost imposible to get the rear tire up in the air like on a modern bike.

[mcman56]

I did the carburetor bore mod , which i read on an old post you must have wrote. Also opened up the manifold and port and polished the intake.

Thanks for that tip ! , very pleased with it. I will try the adjustable sprocket and see if that solves the problems of pinging probably due to preignition with the higher compression piston i used.

I,ve had alot of fun building my bike , making improvements for better trials riding. Still on my list to do is a alloy wes exhaust or similar, a stonger alloy skid plate and to lace up the wheels with some good alloy rims. The only thing i don't like about the bike are the drum brakes, which will stop me ok, but almost imposible to get the rear tire up in the air like on a modern bike.

What type of improvement did the increased compression make? I have several motorhead books and Bell's book on 4 stroke tuning recommends retarding the cam timing to eliminate detonation due to high compression. Did the new piston alter the squish clearance? Other books state that this can speed up the buring process and therefore require less spark advance.

A few pictures of my skid plate are attached. (If this works.) In addition to protection, the flat bottom adds quite a bit of stability when "skidplating" over logs or rocks.

Dan

Edited May 12, 2007 by mcman56

[mcman56]

A few more pics.

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m137/mc...s10_2005002.jpg

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m137/mc...s10_2005006.jpg

[muddytires]

Where did you get the skid plate or was it fabricated ?

I don't know what differece the wiseco piston made, as the bike was a non runner when i got it. I suppose i should get a adjustable cam sprocket and play around with different settings. As is, the bike has plenty of snap to get me over large logs and rocks ,it just pings a bit when the motor heats up.

Heres a tip that someone gave me who has also been building a tlr. If you cut off the lower dowel part on the footpegs and place the dowel or another spacer on the top side of the peg inside the bracket , it will lower and set the pegs back about 1/2''. You have to switch the springs from the opposite sides also. I did this and just that 1/2 '' made a huge difference in balancing the bike. I used some cheap wide alloy pegs i got on Ebay that are for an xr/crf 50.

Something else i did was make an extension for the clutch arm for a easier pulling clutch lever.

[mcman56]

Where did you get the skid plate or was it fabricated ?

I don't know what differece the wiseco piston made, as the bike was a non runner when i got it. I suppose i should get a adjustable cam sprocket and play around with different settings. As is, the bike has plenty of snap to get me over large logs and rocks ,it just pings a bit when the motor heats up.

Heres a tip that someone gave me who has also been building a tlr. If you cut off the lower dowel part on the footpegs and place the dowel or another spacer on the top side of the peg inside the bracket , it will lower and set the pegs back about 1/2''. You have to switch the springs from the opposite sides also. I did this and just that 1/2 '' made a huge difference in balancing the bike. I used some cheap wide alloy pegs i got on Ebay that are for an xr/crf 50.

Something else i did was make an extension for the clutch arm for a easier pulling clutch lever.

I couldn't find a skid plate so made it myself. With your footpeg change, do your feet now hit the mounting bracket when slid all of the way in? That was my concern when I made the pegs so I kept the standard configuration. Do the alloy pegs hold up?

[muddytires]

Where did you get the skid plate or was it fabricated ?

I don't know what differece the wiseco piston made, as the bike was a non runner when i got it. I suppose i should get a adjustable cam sprocket and play around with different settings. As is, the bike has plenty of snap to get me over large logs and rocks ,it just pings a bit when the motor heats up.

Heres a tip that someone gave me who has also been building a tlr. If you cut off the lower dowel part on the footpegs and place the dowel or another spacer on the top side of the peg inside the bracket , it will lower and set the pegs back about 1/2''. You have to switch the springs from the opposite sides also. I did this and just that 1/2 '' made a huge difference in balancing the bike. I used some cheap wide alloy pegs i got on Ebay that are for an xr/crf 50.

Something else i did was make an extension for the clutch arm for a easier pulling clutch lever.

I couldn't find a skid plate so made it myself. With your footpeg change, do your feet now hit the mounting bracket when slid all of the way in? That was my concern when I made the pegs so I kept the standard configuration. Do the alloy pegs hold up?

With the pegs i have they still sit a little higher than the brackets. I was a bit worried on how long the alloy peg would last ,as they where very light and not very beefy, but so far they have held up well and survived several hard landings from 4' drop offs.