hillary Posted May 13, 2007 Report Share Posted May 13, 2007 Regarding the reply by Hughesy - no you are not the observer I'm referring to, even though you may think that's so, in fact, I wasn't at the top sub of Kilmalieu for long and when there was taking pics, so didn't notice how you were observing. The section I'm referring to was another day and I don't know who the observer was. Incidentally, why, on a very crowded section does the observer spend all day shouting at the crowd to move back, when he could so easily move himself. Surely it's easy to get yourself moved for better vision rather than trying to move 100 or so people. Glad this column has created some early reaction, hope some more comes in over the next few days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancsvet_2 Posted May 13, 2007 Report Share Posted May 13, 2007 Regarding the reply by Hughesy - no you are not the observer I'm referring to, even though you may think that's so, in fact, I wasn't at the top sub of Kilmalieu for long and when there was taking pics, so didn't notice how you were observing. The section I'm referring to was another day and I don't know who the observer was.Incidentally, why, on a very crowded section does the observer spend all day shouting at the crowd to move back, when he could so easily move himself. Surely it's easy to get yourself moved for better vision rather than trying to move 100 or so people. Glad this column has created some early reaction, hope some more comes in over the next few days. Hillary, Read the posts properly before posting, Hughesy was replying to Gizza 5's post!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpa3 Posted May 13, 2007 Report Share Posted May 13, 2007 BTW, what do people class as a 'mometary stop', one stop, twice, bike bouncing off the same rock five times? It's a tough job but someone's got to do it...... Our club runs two National trials where the Non stop rules are used. When observers ask me 'what is classed as a stop' I always tell them that it's when the bike stops moving forward no matter for how long, but the most important thing is that you observe every rider the same. I appreciate anyone who stands and observes and there's always going to be differences in interpretations of a ride. I think that generally riders get away with more than they loose but it's only the ones you loose that you remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
totalshell Posted May 13, 2007 Report Share Posted May 13, 2007 (edited) ''BTW, what do people class as a 'mometary stop', one stop, twice, bike bouncing off the same rock five times? It's a tough job but someone's got to do it......'' From Encarta.. STOP To cease doing an activity. James and Brenda stopped dating because James slept with her sister. Edited May 13, 2007 by totalshell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinell Posted May 13, 2007 Report Share Posted May 13, 2007 On another note I was particularly cheesed off at the amount of riders who asked for a 5 on my sections, I won't name names, but they were serial offenders! One lad rode my last section with no clutch lever rather than ask for a 5, I don't know how, but he cleaned it!! My point is that some see spending Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4rtnevermissedabeat Posted May 13, 2007 Report Share Posted May 13, 2007 1st timer to the ssdt i agree the sections where tough but with the differance in ability it is very hard to get it right, i think most of the observers where fair the odd one a bit quick to give a five to mr average, but let the top boys of with a quick stop of forward motion, excellantly organised event well done to every one involved, thanks to sandifords excellant support, thanks to sandy, steve, mark & paul for keeping me right on my first time.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveo Posted May 14, 2007 Report Share Posted May 14, 2007 I take it you mean the top sub at Kilmalieu?? I was the observer! I didn't get a ride this year so went up to observe for a few days, I've ridden the Scottish 4 times and thought observing would be a piece of cake. How wrong I was! Sometimes the difference between a 3 and a 5 is tiny. When a rider stopped ( feet up or not) I counted "one, two" and if they were still stationary then it was a 5 in my book. I'm sorry if you didn't agree but I was consistent throughout the (long) day, so was impartial with everyone. Tommi Ahvalha also fell foul to a 5 for stopping and took the decision very well, we laughed at your response, that's how I remember it was you!! Yep thats about right it was a good struggle, but made it to the top, damn right it was a 5, but we have all tried to get away with a 3 My response was apt and indeed caused a laugh from all of us. Well done for being consistant, not something Mike has seen from other observers from his observations as a spectator....................... Sounds like you had a great week and you really do make us envious of your achievements no matter where you finished. On the brighter side, I think you should be looking at a name change......GIZZA3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted May 14, 2007 Report Share Posted May 14, 2007 1. Shaun Morris at a section Ba House as I recall, Thursday- slid at least 2 foot backwards on a slab "step", then dabbed and set off again- a one was recorded, according to hand signals I observed (or at least I think that's what was meant!)2. Dan Thorpe- Trotters Burn- last section of the day- wonderful leg waving "save", for a clean, except one had to put to one side (as the observer did) that he had knocked over the blue marker at the top of the step... Observing! the necessary evil of trials eh? I think that on a trial like the SSDT when you will get lots of average riders (at this level) 'pushing through' then there is a compassionate vote taken by most observers who could imagine being in the same position and thinking a 5 would be harsh for the amount of effort just put in when the rider gets out the end cards intact so a 3 would be fairer. Most people wouldn't mind that if the observing is consistent. The problem arises when you are dealing with the top 2% of riders who have a chance of winning! If you take a top rider in this category then particularly if he is behind trying to make time/score up, he will ride a section well and get a valid clean, another rider who slips back with a foot down and gets a 1 instead of a 5 could be the difference between winning or losing the SSDT. Whilst you may think you are being fair to the rider who dabs and gets a 1 when it should be a 5 , you are actually being unfair to the rider who rides the section 'properly' . It shows how tight it was as Brown & Jarvis were split between 2nd and 3rd positions by 1 clean over 180 sections! So I say, the the top 2% must be observed EXACTLY to the rules to be sure of getting a valid winner. IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughesy Posted May 14, 2007 Report Share Posted May 14, 2007 (edited) Hillary Posted Yesterday, 10:24 PM Regarding the reply by Hughesy - no you are not the observer I'm referring to, even though you may think that's so, in fact, I wasn't at the top sub of Kilmalieu for long and when there was taking pics, so didn't notice how you were observing. The section I'm referring to was another day and I don't know who the observer was. I was replying to Gizza5's post. Kinell Posted Yesterday, 11:17 PM QUOTE(Hughesy @ May 13 2007, 07:48 PM) On another note I was particularly cheesed off at the amount of riders who asked for a 5 on my sections, I won't name names, but they were serial offenders! One lad rode my last section with no clutch lever rather than ask for a 5, I don't know how, but he cleaned it!! My point is that some see spending Edited May 14, 2007 by Hughesy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dabber Posted May 14, 2007 Report Share Posted May 14, 2007 Is it not time to have a couple of optional "expert only" sections every day? You would choose when entering whether you were to ride them and be issued with a different coloured number board. An extra 15 minutes would be given to ride them and those who chose not to ride them would be given a six to differentiate between an expert who has tried and failed. Imagine a close finish where it could all be decided on two stonking sections at Ben Nevis rather than the leaders trying just not to lose concentration. Great spectator draw too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highland lassie Posted May 14, 2007 Report Share Posted May 14, 2007 Is it not time to have a couple of optional "expert only" sections every day? NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted May 14, 2007 Report Share Posted May 14, 2007 (edited) Is it not time to have a couple of optional "expert only" sections every day? You would choose when entering whether you were to ride them and be issued with a different coloured number board. An extra 15 minutes would be given to ride them and those who chose not to ride them would be given a six to differentiate between an expert who has tried and failed. Imagine a close finish where it could all be decided on two stonking sections at Ben Nevis rather than the leaders trying just not to lose concentration. Great spectator draw too? A good idea worth consideration surely HL? Atom ant i agree with your sentiments in your post above but i know i am in the minority here but if i end up observing at next years Scottish how do i know who is one of that top 2% ? When i observed in the pre65 i had trouble knowing who was who, apart from the lads i ride with regularly, you cant keep looking at the programme. Realistically it shouldnt matter who is who you should mark everybody the same and that is what i tried to do. OK your heart sometimes allows the benefit of the doubt for a fighter doing the "works centepide" but i'm talking about a fighting 3 against a definate 5. It's only human nature after all, especially when in the pre65 there were rigids and even a panther up against some modern trick "pre65 twinshocks", and i guarantee i was consistant. Perhaps asking for a 5 should receive 6 and perhaps there should be a 4 for a determined legging / pushing through attempt? I dont know but there should be some way of rewarding or differentiating between 3 dabs and legging it through the same as you should always be allowed to ask for a "5" if you think the section is way above you but should you then receive the same mark as a rider who has a good go? As usual Hilary thought provoking and hard to have a definitive answer. Edited May 14, 2007 by Old trials fanatic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dabber Posted May 14, 2007 Report Share Posted May 14, 2007 Is it not time to have a couple of optional "expert only" sections every day? NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Dont shout - only asking. OK - the non-experts drop two sections rather than adding an extra two. In the groups I've spectated at there is tons of scope to add (or toughen up) bits between the existing sections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted May 14, 2007 Report Share Posted May 14, 2007 (edited) Is it not time to have a couple of optional "expert only" sections every day? NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Dont shout - only asking. OK - the non-experts drop two sections rather than adding an extra two. In the groups I've spectated at there is tons of scope to add (or toughen up) bits between the existing sections. Surely he's got a point HL. You did ask for suggestions and this would help with keeping people on time plus would it really make any extra work for the course setters ? Cant see it myself. Good suggestion Dabber Edited May 14, 2007 by Old trials fanatic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveo Posted May 14, 2007 Report Share Posted May 14, 2007 To start giving seperate sections to the highly skilled riders will bring the SSDT to a level that has seen the slide of the status of the WTC. Why on earth would anyone consider changing a tradition !!! If the guns find it to hard to hold their concentration for six days of riding, because they think it a walk in the park, don"t enter. If the battlers are finding it to hard of a slog, get fitter or don"t enter. Most everyone, no everyone, who enters this event knows what to expect....isn"t that what the Scottish is about ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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