Which 4 Stroker To Buy?

[dgshannon]

Used to ride a Beta 250 and have had no problem so far with changing to Four-stoke power!

Having ridden a 4-stroke for several years now, I would say that your experience is not the norm. An experienced 2-stroke rider will typically have a hard time letting go of the 2-stroke habits. Over the years, you train yourself to do certian things, without even thinking. Now, you not only have to start thinking about them, but you have to start thinking about how to do them differently, and do so until it becomes an unconscious habit, once again. The transition can be tough, and I have met VERY FEW riders who liked their first ride on a 4-stroke.

[axulsuv]

I must be abnormal then ... I started on four-strokes, when honda first started building them. Just about every model produced for consumption, and had never riden a two-stroke trials bike until my thirty year hiatus was up and I bought my used 83 240 pro a couple years ago and had to learn how to ride trials all over again. The other way is harder I think... I wish I could afford a 4-stroke but at my age and commitments I'll just keep riding vintage and twin-shock events. (unless I win the lottery!!)

Glenn

Edited August 18, 2007 by axulsuv

[steve fracy]

Well I am a recent 4T convert and after almost a month and a half, I have to say I am having so much fun! I really studied comments by many guys I respect who all said the same thing. it will take time to get used to it so be patient...... Never ridden a 4T in my life, so I really feel like I had an open mind to it. yes, it is totally different. But, I really feel for the type of terrain we ride here in the Pacific Northwest of North America where it its wet 75% of the time, there is nothing that can grip like this bike. By the way I ride the much maligned Sherco 4T. Wow, what a motor!!!! It just really suites my riding style and I can't say enough about how it gets traction. Very happy!

Steve

[copemech]

Steve,

You forgot to put the legal disclaimer!

These bikes are for use by experienced riders only! Although gentile as a pussycat, if you wick them past half you may experience a "woodie" that could last for hours! If your "woodie" lasts for more than four hours you should consult your MD and get your glands cleaned out while there! The experience of "woodies" is common for riders over 40 years of age and can result in large financial losses due to reports of Montesas being set by the curb for reclamation.

Lowering of gearing so not to catapult your sorry "woodie" wearing a-se over things including the wifes sofa and auto should also be avoided as this may lead to premature evacuation of proper "woodie" with the spousal unit! Never show it untill the proper time!

Be safe and always wear a helmet when you ride!

[sirhc]

Steve,

I know the previous owner of your bike. While checking a section with him the first day at the Donner national I noticed he went back to a 175 Scorpa so I figured his bike went up north. He confirmed that it had, said it was too much bike for him and he was very happy with his new little Scorpa. I will say it wasn't ridden hard, glad to hear you like it.

As for me I had no problem adapting to a 4t. I got mine the night before a trial and rode it the next day. My scores where about the same as always. I guess I am odd because when I rode other peoples 4rt's before I had mine they felt good from the get go. After 9 monthes now when I ride a 2t they still feel good to me, so I can still go either way. In a few years when 2t's get rare I will probably get one of those.

I still haven't ridden a Sherco, but I have ridden the Scorpa & Beta. First off I can't totally speak for power as my 4rt isn't stock and they all feel a little flat (including stock 4rt's) compared to my bike.

When I rode the Scorpa the first thing I noticed was the big feel of the bike geometry wise. For me this wasn't a bad thing since I hate feeling cramped on a bike. Even with the big feel the bike still turns really well with a nice tucked in front end. It started very easy! and was a very nice bike to ride. Power should be good for everybody below expert.

As for the Beta the first thing that I noticed was the really quite exhaust note The next thing I noticed was all the motor noise. No big deal I guess that's just the way they are. It really was what I thought it would be like, a REV 3 with a 4t motor. I like the way Rev 3's handle & turn, but the suspension doesn't work as well as the 4rt's does for me (no bikes do for that matter). With the CV carb the bike ran really nice and clean with no hiccups even when I tried to make it hiccup. Starting was a little hit & miss for me and for some reason it didn't feel as finished as my 4rt. I don't know if that was because of the engine noise or vibration, it just gave me that feeling for some reason.

So what 4 stroke to buy? I think it's the same as the 2 strokes, their all nice and if you ask a bunch of people you will get a bunch of different answers.

[steve fracy]

Chris:

Hey thanks for that bit of info, I am glad the lad who sold the bike to me is still riding at least! I am totally jazzed about the bike. Some I know lowered the gearing in an attempt to lessen the incredible grunt this motor has, but I actually geared it up a bit. It makes 1st actually usuable, 2nd the most used gear, and 3rd the assault gear. But the neat thing is that the power is so elastic. Grunt off the bottom and as well can be revved to the moon when climbing. I have noticed already that riding my regular practise sections in very wet conditions, the bike makes them so easy to get grip it's just stupid. A lot less effort about hooking up. That being said, I have a special set of Hebo pegs on that are set back just over half inch. The riding position is perfect for me which is really important. Just feel so comfortable on it, and very pleased. I will get another one!

PS. Get a ride on a Sherco for sure, you will be surprised I think!

steve

Edited August 23, 2007 by Steve Fracy

[ian640]

Hi All,

Some advice required here. I've been away from mainstream trials for some time but looking to get back into this great sport.

I'm considering a new bike and my two main purchase criteria are that it must have a Japanese motor and must be a 4 stroke. There's nostalgic reasons behind this. The machine to have at the moment seems to be the Montesa, but I also quite like the Scorpa SY250-F. Everyone I've spoken to seems happy with their Montesa 4RT but then again the solitary SY250-F owner I've spoken to was happy with his choice. Both bikes seemed to go OK at the SSDT this year.

My rationale behind considering the Scorpa is:

1. I like Yamahas (current machine is a TY250R 'pinky').

2. I'm interested in riding old-fashioned single lap events (nothing wrong with single venue events but my free Sundays are limited so I like to get a full day out):

Although the Scorpa's motor looks a bigger lump than the Honda unit, does it have more 'meat' in it and therefore more suitable for road based events?

Secondly, one can get the bigger tank unit for the SY. I know one is available for the Montesa but it seems to take up most of the space above the seat area.

3. I know I'm never going to be competitive in this type of event so I don't need a replica of the world champion's bike. The extra couple of kilo's shouldn't bother me.

4. The 2008 SY-F looks great (subjective I know) and seems to have a few improvements in the top end and carb.

5. Fuel injection still scares me. I know it shouldn't.

For me, the main pro for Montesa is that it's likely had a great deal of investment put into it's development by Honda so is more mature.

Advice please.

Thanks.

[malibudon]

5. Fuel injection still scares me. I know it shouldn't.

I agree with you...it shouldn't.

In fact, I wouldn't have bought a four-stroke without EFI. The computer bails you out of so many mistakes, it's amazing. The computer is programmed to not let the engine die, and it does its best, within the program's parameters, to make sure the engine continues to run. If we didn't know about computers, we'd call it "magic".

Remember the old days of carbureted four-strokes, where they'd die if you wicked the throttle wide open from idle? Those days are gone with EFI. The system is designed to not let that happen, and it does its job both incredibly well and wholly transparently.

A carb is to EFI what points are to a CDI.

[atomant]

5. Fuel injection still scares me. I know it shouldn't.

I agree with you...it shouldn't.

In fact, I wouldn't have bought a four-stroke without EFI. The computer bails you out of so many mistakes, it's amazing. The computer is programmed to not let the engine die, and it does its best, within the program's parameters, to make sure the engine continues to run. If we didn't know about computers, we'd call it "magic".

Remember the old days of carbureted four-strokes, where they'd die if you wicked the throttle wide open from idle? Those days are gone with EFI. The system is designed to not let that happen, and it does its job both incredibly well and wholly transparently.

A carb is to EFI what points are to a CDI.

Spot on (big fan of EFI )

Ian640, your post sounds like you are trying to find every reason you can think of to justify NOT buying a 4RT! Not sure why you specify the Motor has to be Japanese? As you cite nostalgia as the reason, you may want a motor that feels more like a conventional 4T and for me that would be a Sherco 4T

[for artie]

Hi All,

Some advice required here. I've been away from mainstream trials for some time but looking to get back into this great sport.

I'm considering a new bike and my two main purchase criteria are that it must have a Japanese motor and must be a 4 stroke. There's nostalgic reasons behind this. The machine to have at the moment seems to be the Montesa, but I also quite like the Scorpa SY250-F. Everyone I've spoken to seems happy with their Montesa 4RT but then again the solitary SY250-F owner I've spoken to was happy with his choice. Both bikes seemed to go OK at the SSDT this year.

My rationale behind considering the Scorpa is:

1. I like Yamahas (current machine is a TY250R 'pinky').

2. I'm interested in riding old-fashioned single lap events (nothing wrong with single venue events but my free Sundays are limited so I like to get a full day out):

Although the Scorpa's motor looks a bigger lump than the Honda unit, does it have more 'meat' in it and therefore more suitable for road based events?

Secondly, one can get the bigger tank unit for the SY. I know one is available for the Montesa but it seems to take up most of the space above the seat area.

3. I know I'm never going to be competitive in this type of event so I don't need a replica of the world champion's bike. The extra couple of kilo's shouldn't bother me.

4. The 2008 SY-F looks great (subjective I know) and seems to have a few improvements in the top end and carb.

5. Fuel injection still scares me. I know it shouldn't.

For me, the main pro for Montesa is that it's likely had a great deal of investment put into it's development by Honda so is more mature.

Advice please.

Thanks.

I dont see why you need a double overhead cam 5 valve motor for trials. it is time for Yamaha to make a trials motor 4T. should be no prob for the Mont on the road events. they all do fine in the ssdt and that is the biggest road trial in the world.

why does the FI scare you? a carb is way more complex. only 2 or 3 moving parts in the FI. a carbys got untold number of parts. springs floats clips jets choke slide.

[ian640]

Thanks for this.

Trying to justify buying the Scorpa, not justify not buying the 4RT.

I'll get over the EFI-phobia. I wasn't around at the time but I imagine similar phobias existed when electronic ignition was introduced.

Nostalgia reason: when I started trials Eddy Lejeune on his RTL360 was on the road to his first world crown. Wanted that bike at the time (of course it was unobtainable) but I suppose the 4RT is the nearest modern equivalent.

After a chat with a 4RT owning friend last night (who finished SSDT with no bike problems) looks like a Mont may be populating my garage.

Cheers.

[swooshdave]

[hop blip and a jump]

I still haven't decided which 4 stroker to buy, i tried a 4rt and a rev 4 at hawkstone and even had a little go on scorpa 250f, i was a bit dissapointed that their was'nt a sherco 4t to try.

I found the 4 strokes easy to ride and felt comfortable riding them straight away!

The problem is i think all the bikes are good!!

I'm very tempted with the sherco 4t even though i haven't tried one.

[scorpa3]

I've tried the Sherco, montesa and the Beta briefly and I really liked the Sherco... a lot! I just couldn't start it, although it was a 2005 model.

[steve fracy]

I would make a list of things that are important to YOU in making your choice. For me it was easy. I went for the Sherco for all the above reasons. Power, lightweight, quiet!!!!!! Also important are, dealer in your area, support from dealer and importer. I know the importer in UK is good and sure there is a good dealer too! I have one of the dreaded 05 s with all the update kits. It is brilliant to say the least!!!

steve