Abergavenny Abcd

[money muncher]

A big well done to Abergavenny for another brilliant National.

The A and B sections had been eased but were tough,(just as it should be).

I think we must have been the only place not to get the rain which made for a great weekend.

[telecat]

A big well done to Abergavenny for another brilliant National.

The A and B sections had been eased but were tough,(just as it should be).

I think we must have been the only place not to get the rain which made for a great weekend.

Not so Sure about great. The Sections were good but there were to many long sections and the "B" class lap starting on the second lap caused time problems as those on the seconf lap clashed with those still on their first. In fact I've never seen that way of doing it before !

Edited June 25, 2007 by Telecat

[money muncher]

A big well done to Abergavenny for another brilliant National.

The A and B sections had been eased but were tough,(just as it should be).

I think we must have been the only place not to get the rain which made for a great weekend.

Not so Sure about great. The Sections were good but there were to many long sections and the "B" class lap starting on the second lap caused time problems as those on the seconf lap clashed with those still on their first. In fact I've never seen that way of doing it before !

That worked well for us, we caught the A's up at section 4 on our first lap but only had to put up with them antil section 6 then we went back to section 1 after changing cards.

Some of the sections were abit long, but its all to easy to criticize after the event.

[sdc]

I would be flattered if I were to receive

[aficionado]

I would be flattered if I were to receive

Edited June 25, 2007 by aficionado

[as iow]

A good trial as always in Wales, but i hope all those who cheated thier way in to the results are pleased with themselves.

I thought you finished the trial after you rode the last section, and not before you rode it.

Some riders got signed off to stop the clock, and then rode the last section.

It was a bit disappointing as we attempted every section on every lap, and then took a five on the easy last section just to get inside the time. Some riders jumped sections and then got signed off and then rode the last sections, if the ACU rules were inforced those riders could face elimination.

Is it not time to loose more than 5 for not attempting a section at national level?

Several A class riders take for ever to do the first lap, and then think they have a god given wright to musel thier way in front of the smaller B class lads when they find that time is running out.

It was a bloody good trial just spoilt by the selfish attitued of a handfull of riders.

[no1]

The sections were spot on nice and long and very demanding as they sould be.

It was a very Good trial

The fault with this trial and every youth British Championship trial are the rules if they run the FIM rule the same as the Adults with a 2 hour window to inspect the sections and a timed first lap set the B class off first then the A class there would be no queing.

[telecat]

The sections were spot on nice and long and very demanding as they should be.

It was a very Good trial

The fault with this trial and every youth British Championship trial are the rules if they run the FIM rule the same as the Adults with a 2 hour window to inspect the sections and a timed first lap set the B class off first then the A class there would be no queueing.

The major Fault was in the B class running 7 as section 1 thru to 6 to end it then running back to the start to collect the next lap and starting at one. This threw the early B class into the Late A class and B class slowing them down but not penalising the "later" starters. If you split the classes then you keep them split. The cards should have had a half lap. 2 full lap's and a half lap for the B class. I have never seen this way attempted before and If it comes up again in the year I shall be objecting at the briefing before the start and making sure that I would want a time extension for the affected class. It seems a penny pinching move by the organisers saving money on punch cards when the parents have spent a lot of money supporting the event.

We all know as well that getting Observers is difficult but the lack of punchers caused major delays. At one section a parent timed the observer taking nearly ten minutes just to give a rider a requested 5. That parent observes National events and was not impressed. Also looking at the results there is, I believe, at least one anomaly which cannot now be rectified.

All in all the Sections were good but did have "stoppers" and they always slow down the event. A section should be "paddle able" within 2 minutes. Many riders on both courses took 5 to 10 minutes to get three's. That is the sign of a Bad section. Section 5 and 10 were amongest the worst.

As for the riders being signed off before riding section 12 it appears to have been a "common Sense" move that was initiated by the person signing people off. They did this because of the queues at 12 but I understand that some riders may have taken advantage and gone to 12 and then back to complete sections. I'm not commenting further on this as I didn't see it but if true it makes a mockery of the "time limit".

Edited June 26, 2007 by Telecat

[as iow]

As for the riders being signed off before riding section 12 it appears to have been a "common Sense" move that was initiated by the person signing people off. They did this because of the queues at 12 but I understand that some riders may have taken advantage and gone to 12 and then back to complete sections. I'm not commenting further on this as I didn't see it but if true it makes a mockery of the "time limit".

It is true, it did happen, but if that person made that "common sense" move, why did they not tell every rider who was asking for a five to get inside the time. Only the C of course can make such a move, (if the ACU steward agree's) and then every rider should be aware of the rule change, it is not fare to change the rules of the trial half way through the event without informing every competitor. The fact remains that because my son & other riders rode three laps of 12 sections as per the rules, they came home with nothing, while those who missed sections and got signed of before they had realy finnished scored points and that do,nt seem fair.

[telecat]

As for the riders being signed off before riding section 12 it appears to have been a "common Sense" move that was initiated by the person signing people off. They did this because of the queues at 12 but I understand that some riders may have taken advantage and gone to 12 and then back to complete sections. I'm not commenting further on this as I didn't see it but if true it makes a mockery of the "time limit".

It is true, it did happen, but if that person made that "common sense" move, why did they not tell every rider who was asking for a five to get inside the time. Only the C of course can make such a move, (if the ACU steward agrees) and then every rider should be aware of the rule change, it is not fare to change the rules of the trial half way through the event without informing every competitor. The fact remains that because my son & other riders rode three laps of 12 sections as per the rules, they came home with nothing, while those who missed sections and got signed of before they had really finished scored points and that don't seem fair.

Got to agree, My Son got nothing as well.

[mtrebor]

Hi Telecat, IOW, no1 and John Collins.

I have only been a guest on TC and from the reports and comments you have made in the passed reguarding other clubs organizations, yes you have got valid points but dont go to far so other persons throw the towel in as this sounded like the perfect National Youth Trial with long demanding sections the thing some clubs forget, it what the UK Riders want if they are to take on the Euopeans and then the World.

The person on the Time Off Clock may have noted the last section on the riders cards was were not punched and told the riders they could nip back and do it as a frindly gesture, which is not the correct thing tod o as the insurance for the riders and thired parties may have not covered in the event of an accident.

The ACU Mr John Collins could take a note (I know he has given a great deal of his time in the passed to help, thank you John) regarding the remakes the no1 has made about the UEM times.

I dont think the C of C could have gotten the time extended even if he had asked the ACU Steward after the trial had started only in the riders pre breif.

[telecat]

Hi Telecat, IOW, no1 and John Collins.

I have only been a guest on TC and from the reports and comments you have made in the passed reguarding other clubs organizations, yes you have got valid points but dont go to far so other persons throw the towel in as this sounded like the perfect National Youth Trial with long demanding sections the thing some clubs forget, it what the UK Riders want if they are to take on the Euopeans and then the World.

The person on the Time Off Clock may have noted the last section on the riders cards was were not punched and told the riders they could nip back and do it as a frindly gesture, which is not the correct thing tod o as the insurance for the riders and thired parties may have not covered in the event of an accident.

The ACU Mr John Collins could take a note (I know he has given a great deal of his time in the passed to help, thank you John) regarding the remakes the no1 has made about the UEM times.

I dont think the C of C could have gotten the time extended even if he had asked the ACU Steward after the trial had started only in the riders pre breif.

I believe it has been done in the past to avoid accidents. The feed back I got was that the Trial was do-able in 4 1/2 hours. so maybe only 1 extra hour was pushing it a bit?? Also the complaint the club levelled was that "A" class riders were holding up other riders at the sections, hence why penalise the "B" class where the starting regime penalised them??

We do the YMSA events as well and they are as, if not more demanding. However time is not a problem despite the sections being tough. I shall be taking the organiser's invitation to object to the exclusions on the grounds that misleading information was fed to the riders by an "older gentlemen" at Punch card control. As previously stated they also have messed up another riders time in the results to their favour. I'd suggest that if any other Parents or riders wish to do the same that their views are forwarded. The address is on previous posts.

P.S. to AS iow I tried sending you a mail via the Trials Central System but could not get thru.

Edited June 29, 2007 by Telecat

[mtrebor]

I say again Sir, as no1 suggested "B" class start frist at Zone one, followed by the "A" class.

The 5hr time limit is a fair allowance but put the 2hr limit on the first lap, as per Adults.

If you require a Professionals oppinion ask John Lapkin what he thinks about the 5hr limit.

Use the 2hr window for walking and Inspection of Zones as (EUM rules) prior to the commencment of each event, but not for riding as the British Adult Championship.

This Club and the C of C put on a First Class Event, if I should offer one small point each zone should be possible in 90sec.

The first zone was not attempted by a single rider in the first 50mins, the observer repetedly invited the riders to start he has not right to order riders in as there is the overall time.

Should a rider wish to take a five if he is not happy with the serverity of the zone or the minder suggests to the rider take a five to improve his loss of marks, so be it.

I will also say again times cant be changed by ANYBODY after the trial has started.

Each section must be atempted in the correct order and riders must start at the same section.

YMSA trials are not the issue, YMSA trials start as bees and swarm away from the start to various zone, as per YMSA rules.

[telecat]

I say again Sir, as no1 suggested "B" class start frist at Zone one, followed by the "A" class.

The 5hr time limit is a fair allowance but put the 2hr limit on the first lap, as per Adults.

If you require a Professionals oppinion ask John Lapkin what he thinks about the 5hr limit.

Use the 2hr window for walking and Inspection of Zones as (EUM rules) prior to the commencment of each event, but not for riding as the British Adult Championship.

This Club and the C of C put on a First Class Event, if I should offer one small point each zone should be possible in 90sec.

The first zone was not attempted by a single rider in the first 50mins, the observer repetedly invited the riders to start he has not right to order riders in as there is the overall time.

Should a rider wish to take a five if he is not happy with the serverity of the zone or the minder suggests to the rider take a five to improve his loss of marks, so be it.

I will also say again times cant be changed by ANYBODY after the trial has started.

Each section must be atempted in the correct order and riders must start at the same section.

YMSA trials are not the issue, YMSA trials start as bees and swarm away from the start to various zone, as per YMSA rules.

On Adult Nationals you get about 30 riders per trial hence time is not usually a problem. Getting 80-100 riders thru with a similar time limit presents other challenges. As before I'll state that I was aware of the problem with the "A" Class riders. The starting regime for "B" class caused them problems as they encountered the slower "A"class twice instead of once. If you start a Trial at section 7 then all laps should start at section 7. I will be forwarding a letter that at least suggests this practice be curtailed. Please remember that the affected parents have spent as much time and money as the club in supporting the event. If this happened on a Adult national I doubt the comments from the Riders would be as mild!

[north_yorkshire_lad]

I say again Sir, as no1 suggested "B" class start frist at Zone one, followed by the "A" class.

The 5hr time limit is a fair allowance but put the 2hr limit on the first lap, as per Adults.

If you require a Professionals oppinion ask John Lapkin what he thinks about the 5hr limit.

Use the 2hr window for walking and Inspection of Zones as (EUM rules) prior to the commencment of each event, but not for riding as the British Adult Championship.

This Club and the C of C put on a First Class Event, if I should offer one small point each zone should be possible in 90sec.

The first zone was not attempted by a single rider in the first 50mins, the observer repetedly invited the riders to start he has not right to order riders in as there is the overall time.

Should a rider wish to take a five if he is not happy with the serverity of the zone or the minder suggests to the rider take a five to improve his loss of marks, so be it.

I will also say again times cant be changed by ANYBODY after the trial has started.

Each section must be atempted in the correct order and riders must start at the same section.

YMSA trials are not the issue, YMSA trials start as bees and swarm away from the start to various zone, as per YMSA rules.

i have never been to a national before where the B class riders had to do a full lap in that order, why did the club not allow us to do half a lap and then complete 2 full laps before having to do are last half lap, the planning of that area was very poor, A class riders are renound for taking too much time and i lost 35mins waiting at the start of a section, and the people behind me lost even more as the older riders pushed in front of them. i also had to take fives and was still excluded even though the girl that signed me off said i had 5mins left, the fact that the person who handed me my last card said i had a 6 hour time limit is what has frustrated me the most, i had ridden the last part of the trial believing i had some free time to relax before the sections when i had no such time at all,C***