the addict Posted July 7, 2007 Report Share Posted July 7, 2007 Used to be a biggish fan of Formula 1 but haven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neonsurge Posted July 7, 2007 Report Share Posted July 7, 2007 The problem with F1 is that the very obvious differences in the relative car performances that give a distorted view of who is the "best" driver. Look at Jenson Button: Last year he was a hero, this year he's nowhere and the British press have essentially written him off. Is Jenson any less of a driver this year than during the 2006 season when he was getting podium finish after podium finish (including one win)? Nope, it's just that this year's Honda is a dog. Armchair pundit time: There's no doubt that Lewis Hamilton is immensely talented by any standards but remember that he's in one of the 4 best cars on the grid (McLaren and Ferrari seem to be pretty evenly matched in terms of car performance at the moment). If he'd started in F1 in a Toro Rosso or Super Aguri and managed to drag the car further up the grid than could be realistically expected, would he be getting all the attention he's getting now? THAT would be a far better indication of his raw ability. Also, there's a difference between being a brilliant driver and a brilliant F1 driver: Look at Michael Schumacher and Ayrton Senna - they regularly managed to qualify well and even win races in clearly inferior machinery and that's all down to mechanical sympathy and strategic thinking. Hamilton's winning right now and despite the immense pressure he must be under, he continues to deliver for the team. All the indications are that he'll turn out to be one of the greatest but it remains to be seen how he'll perform when things start to go wrong or when the car he's driving doesn't have the inherent performance advantages that the '07 McLaren has over most of the others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the addict Posted July 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2007 Fair points Neon, yer hes got one of the best cars on the grid and teams but you still have to drive the thing bloody quick to win races and championships. Its no surprise that he would get a load of points and results this season but no-one but no-one could have predicted what he has done so far. Youve got the world champ being tonked in the same car,kimi and Massa cant even touch him and its his first season and first time at some of the tracks, thats whats so impressive about him. Not sure if you watched qually today but it was pretty obvoius he wasnt in the fastest car or maybe best set up in 1 and 2 but pulled it out the bag on the last run. He conducts himself like hes an old pro in the sport and pressure just doesnt seem to fase him, all the pressure is on the other three, if Lewis doesnt finish another race all year hes done more than enough already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted July 7, 2007 Report Share Posted July 7, 2007 Fair points Neon, yer hes got one of the best cars on the grid and teams but you still have to drive the thing bloody quick to win races and championships. Its no surprise that he would get a load of points and results this season but no-one but no-one could have predicted what he has done so far. Youve got the world champ being tonked in the same car,kimi and Massa cant even touch him and its his first season and first time at some of the tracks, thats whats so impressive about him. Not sure if you watched qually today but it was pretty obvoius he wasnt in the fastest car or maybe best set up in 1 and 2 but pulled it out the bag on the last run. He conducts himself like hes an old pro in the sport and pressure just doesnt seem to fase him, all the pressure is on the other three, if Lewis doesnt finish another race all year hes done more than enough already. What he said The man has it all. Imagine a rider going from youth 125 and going straight to WTC adults and beating them all first year. I couldn't imagine that could you? He has an old head on young shoulders and is simply an amazing individual. Jenson Button is simply nowhere near the same class. IMHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neonsurge Posted July 7, 2007 Report Share Posted July 7, 2007 The man has it all. Imagine a rider going from youth 125 and going straight to WTC adults and beating them all first year. I couldn't imagine that could you? He has an old head on young shoulders and is simply an amazing individual. Jenson Button is simply nowhere near the same class. Based on all AVAILABLE evidence, I'd tend to agree with everything you're saying. And having watched Lewis in F3000 last year, it does appear as though he's the real deal. All I'm saying is that as far as F1 is concerned (which is a different world compared to virtually all other formulas), he hasn't fully demonstrated the ability to handle the inevitable periods of fundamental uncompetitiveness or simple bad luck. For example, we haven't had a proper wet race this year so it's still unknown how he'll perform under those conditions. I just think that we need to wait until all these questions are answered before making any of these silly "best ever" statements that the press are throwing around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyl Posted July 7, 2007 Report Share Posted July 7, 2007 I agree that it is hard to tell whether it is man or machine but a couple of indicators, Where are Renault without Alonso, was the car good or was it him. What did McLaren do last year, not much. It is easy to say McLaren is the best car and making Lewis look good as everybody said when Mansell won with Williams, Schumacher won with Ferrari but if you are good you make the best of what you have. To go out and beat the world champ( who had the better over Schumacher in the last few years) in the same car I think is a bit special. His calmness and accuracy is superb, Schumacher had a lot of crashes early on before he became unbeatable, Lewis has hit the ground running faster than anybody else. Superb I think, and comes across very genuine. Todays pole was out of the bag for sure, just look at the reactions in the pits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g4321 Posted July 7, 2007 Report Share Posted July 7, 2007 Formula 1 can no longer be considered racing - this is more boring than watching paint dry, NO-ONE overtakes anymore. Try watching bike racing club, national, british championship or world championship, there are more overtaking moves on one lap than in an F1 race. Rant over Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the addict Posted July 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2007 (edited) Apart from the problems the aerodynamics cause for following cars causing overtaking problems I can remember Stirling Moss saying a few years back that the lack of overtaking is mainly down to the sport being so safe now. I used to think he was a bit of a **** saying that but have in recent years changed my mind. The cars are so advanced and full of computers they can virtually chuck it into a bend no matter what speed and the computer/traction control will sort it out, the element of fear is lacking unlike bike racing which is my favourite TV sport. The tracks are mega safe as well so the sport has lost that element of dare I brake too late here,or overtake in this place. Race times are really close these days from pole to last man, mainly due to these factors, and also a GP lasts 3 times as long as a MotoGP or Superbike race so the field will get spread out more. Give them 2 races in the day and 20 laps only and i bet the sport would change overnight for the better Edited July 7, 2007 by The Addict Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted July 8, 2007 Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 There is a fair bit of overtaking in the middle to last order of an F1 race. The front cars are just so closely matched (taken by the qualifying laps) that its hard to see where they can get the extra bit to overtake. Slipstreaming seems the only option as the front driver knows that if they go round at lap time, then the driver behind just isn't gonna get past. Mansell use to pull off some amazing overtaking maneuver's though so it is possible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougie pumpkin Posted July 8, 2007 Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 There is a fair bit of overtaking in the middle to last order of an F1 race. The front cars are just so closely matched (taken by the qualifying laps) that its hard to see where they can get the extra bit to overtake. Slipstreaming seems the only option as the front driver knows that if they go round at lap time, then the driver behind just isn't gonna get past. Mansell use to pull off some amazing overtaking maneuver's though so it is possible Mansel had big big boloc*s and was one of the best overtakers of all time IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilco Posted July 8, 2007 Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 (edited) Mansell use to pull off some amazing overtaking maneuver's though so it is possible Maybe. But i think you have to take into account that mansell's racing day's was year's ago, the car's was diffrent and the track's was diffrent than they are today. Don't think it matter's what new blood come's into F1 today and surprise's everyone with there driving,it's still the same old bore,you have a good car you get out in front from the start you stay there unless the car breaksdown,the most exciting part of F1 for me now is the pit stop's. Get the computer's out the car's put slick's back on get some nice straight's back into the track's then i'd start watching it again. I'd hate to say it but when sena died so did F1. Edited July 8, 2007 by bilco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted July 8, 2007 Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 F1 is a little like Honda Montesa in Trials - The most successful teams have loads of dosh so they get the best drivers, mechanics, designers etc etc and they spend the most on development. When you look at the lap qualifying times, theres just 10ths of a second between the top few, then it levels out to be as much as a few secs to the back of the grid. Considering the millions they spend on running the 'slowest' car its amazing any sponsor would support it. Just think what they would get if they spent the money on a trials team! It also makes you wonder why the drivers 6th on the grid and beyond bother at all And another thing.. I thought the race today was boring and the pit stops just leave you confused as to who is winning. They are expecting the punters to do so some maths whilst the race is on! NOT a good idea me thinks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirhc Posted July 16, 2007 Report Share Posted July 16, 2007 Get the computer's out the car's put slick's back on get some nice straight's back into the track's then i'd start watching it again. They call that Nascar I'm a Nascar fan and I have tried a few times to be a F1 fan, but the lack of a good battle for the lead leaves me switching the channel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toofasttim Posted July 16, 2007 Report Share Posted July 16, 2007 They call that Nascar I'm a Nascar fan and I have tried a few times to be a F1 fan, but the lack of a good battle for the lead leaves me switching the channel. To quote Topgear: "NASCAR sucks" <ducking> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.