biffsgasgas Posted September 6, 2007 Report Share Posted September 6, 2007 (edited) Ever have one of those days when nothing mechanical goes right? I need help.... Actually this is my buddy Marcus's bike from germany but it is a 2004 txt 280 not a pro. I used to have a 2000 and have worked on many so i should know this but since the bike broke twice i am looking for others who may have had this problem..... Ok get to the point Biff... Have this pdf link up when reading this http://www.gasgas.com/Gas-Gas-Media/pdf-s/kickstart.pdf You have the Kick starter shaft. You have the gear that free floats on the kick starter shaft mated to the clutch basket gear. About 2 months ago this gear welded itself to the shaft durring a trials. See attached pdf link number 8 welded itself to number 9. Upon tear down i found very little oil and a whole lot of water. Sweet (i thought) it was a water pump seal. Easy enough.I was able to press the gear off of the shaft but destroyed my press in the process. So after a huge parts debockle we got a new gear (number 8), new water pump seal (shaft looked good), gasket for case half, new c clip (number 10) The shaft (this maybe where we went wrong) we had turned by very experienced machinst here in detroit. (We both work for automotive companies) Well we put it all back together and it ran for about 15 mins before the shaft and gear became one again. That being stated has anybody out there in gasgas world had this problem. If so then did you have the problem happen twice? I think we are at the point where we need to replace both the gear and shaft together but we noted that there is no bushing and both of these materials seem to be the same and since there is only oil splashed here i can not see how they would fail again. This never happened to me on my 2000 and i had that apart a lot. Thanks in advance.... -- Broken down Biff Edited September 6, 2007 by biffsgasgas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copemech Posted September 7, 2007 Report Share Posted September 7, 2007 Excuse me Biff, but I cannot resist this one. Did you put oil back in when finished? On another note, if there is no bearing and the parts welded together to begin with, then the shaft probably annealed(lost surface hardness) due to the heat. That is why it did it again. It is a funny thing that happens with metals running at high speeds.(with low lubrication) And stop running that recycled ATF! Get new parts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biffsgasgas Posted September 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2007 hahahahaha you know your probably right that recycled atf is not the best.... (joke) You bring up a great point. We probably did loose the harness on the shaft. hmmmmmmmmm Yeah we put oil back in. I found out when tearing it down that he was using the pro oil amount orginally (350cc) and not the txt (600cc). I put it to the 600cc that was needed. I bet your dead on cope..... BRILIANT! ok off to order some parts (again with my tail between my legs in defeat) --Biff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterb Posted September 11, 2007 Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 Hi Biff, I've never heard of this happening in my 15 years of riding/fixing GG. Only reason the gears would seize together is due to excess heat probably from lack of oil. In the older motors, I always ran with 700ml of Pennzoil 10 weight mineral, following dumping the original contents (when hot). You may also have a problem with the centre muffler (silencer) as sometimes these were sited quite close to the top of the clutch case, right where the kickstart shaft is, and may even be rubbing on the top of the case, heating it up. The gear shaft would likely be case hardened only, so perhaps when you had it turned down the machining may have gone through the case hardening layer, or and more likely, when the gear/shaft heated up and welded together, the heat would have destroyed the case hardening. I'd recommend a new shaft and both gears, yes, the number 11 too, they don't cost much and it may have also been damaged by the excess heat. I have seen these gears (number 11, trinquette) have their saw tooth gears rounded off as though the gear was not correctly hardened in the first instance - it was easily filed back into shape to last out till a replacement was available. Bye, PeterB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biffsgasgas Posted September 11, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 Hi Biff,I've never heard of this happening in my 15 years of riding/fixing GG. Only reason the gears would seize together is due to excess heat probably from lack of oil. In the older motors, I always ran with 700ml of Pennzoil 10 weight mineral, following dumping the original contents (when hot). You may also have a problem with the centre muffler (silencer) as sometimes these were sited quite close to the top of the clutch case, right where the kickstart shaft is, and may even be rubbing on the top of the case, heating it up. The gear shaft would likely be case hardened only, so perhaps when you had it turned down the machining may have gone through the case hardening layer, or and more likely, when the gear/shaft heated up and welded together, the heat would have destroyed the case hardening. I'd recommend a new shaft and both gears, yes, the number 11 too, they don't cost much and it may have also been damaged by the excess heat. I have seen these gears (number 11, trinquette) have their saw tooth gears rounded off as though the gear was not correctly hardened in the first instance - it was easily filed back into shape to last out till a replacement was available. Bye, PeterB. I have been working on these things for just about as long. The orginal reason why this happened was that the kick starter came out when the bike and its rider failed at an obstical. The bike landed on the kick starter and started to come back and engage. At that same moment the bike went wide open away from anybody to shut it down. The bike finally stalled when the kick shaft ciezed and came into the foot peg. Its one of those freak one in a million accidents. We have new shaft and gear on the way. I think that we did go through the case hardening and we tried to go the cheap route orginally with out putting too much thhought into it. I think you guys were right. --Biff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterb Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 Ouch! Remember to get both gears! A friend of mine had a new 1995 250 Gasser that had a similar freak accident, landed upside down in a section and was wide open, until the piston nipped up - was a costly five. Bye, PeterB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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