kinell Posted September 9, 2007 Report Share Posted September 9, 2007 Admit it, grouping riders and giving them preferential treatment is b*****ks - automating entries and number allocation isn't... Unless of course you state it in the regs:- http://www.richmondmotorclub.com/regs/Scott2007_1.pdf see item 3, It's done in the Scott to keep the riders in a bunch for longer + there's a daylight problem at the end of October. The Scott is a tad different from the usual nationals though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted September 9, 2007 Report Share Posted September 9, 2007 Neither of you are going to win the trial but you want to beat each other so why shouldn't you two be grouped together like the top lads? Simply coz its not important. We would be riding for fun and as I said above, if 2 of you wanted to ride together, you could do one entry for 2 rider allocations so you were riding together. whether it be out first, in the middle, or last doesnt matter does it? I simply think that the top lads who are likely to win have more at stake ( sponsorship deals and importers/teams expectations etc) so it should be such that they all have a fair chance of winning. Riding in a group together should do that I think. The WTC has the youth and juniors go out first with the top boys last , and even then the better ranked riders go out last normally. Its nothing new. Also finally, I think the top boys/girls have earned the right to have a little preferential treatment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikespace Posted September 9, 2007 Report Share Posted September 9, 2007 So if you don't allow riders to be grouped together, and like last year 8 of us ride the Lakes 2 Day, how do you suggest we would manage with fuel. Eight of us aren't going to hunt around finding someone riding near us to spread our fuel, spare wheels, parts and water around. You'll only do it once when the rider you picked has a breakdown and you don't see your fuel again. Does the trial have to then provide fuelling facilities? I seem to remember that the Lakes did in certain places, but not frequent enough for the whole trial. Providing fuel creates another admin nightmare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikespace Posted September 9, 2007 Report Share Posted September 9, 2007 (edited) How do you deal with online payments? I know you may well have thought of this, I'm not trying to catch you out, just wondering what you would use so that the majority of the entry could use it. If no money passes hands then the entry list us useless because there would be too many DNS, no money, no commitment. How would you deal with people who are simply not on line? ....and f***wits who enter 37 times because they really shouldn't be on line Edited September 9, 2007 by bikespace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinell Posted September 9, 2007 Report Share Posted September 9, 2007 So, would you pick an early number or a late number IF you had the choice or are you having so much fun it doesn't really matter anyway? Bringing sponsorship and deals into it won't swing it for me either, I pay for my trials bike, kit and entry fees like everyone else does so why should we all get a raw deal when it comes to late numbers? I'm not against these lads at all but I think if we are all out riding against the terrain and hoping to beat others then we should all be on an equal footing (some of us foot more than others like...) when it comes to being the first up a greasy green beck section. The SSDT is fair to all but that has 6 days to give everyone a chance of a decent day, the Scott as said above is a completely different animal in that the top (fast) lads go last because muppets like us would get sent back from the first petrol stop if they all went before us. I'm going to back out of this debate now because 1) I don't think we'll get anywhere and 2) I feel as though we are cluttering the place up... However, I still think you're wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpa3 Posted September 9, 2007 Report Share Posted September 9, 2007 Sorry about this but I've heard every excuse there is and they wear a bit thin after a while. Strictly in order of reciept of entry. You want to ride with your mate? Send the entries in the same envelope. Top riders have the same chance as everyone else. If the entry is full .... it's full. Beat by someone because they had a better starting position?...... that'll teach you to get your damn entry in earlier! Missed the closing date and turn up for a ride? Give em an observer board... maybe they'll enter in time in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikespace Posted September 9, 2007 Report Share Posted September 9, 2007 Sorry about this but I've heard every excuse there is and they wear a bit thin after a while.Strictly in order of reciept of entry. You want to ride with your mate? Send the entries in the same envelope. Top riders have the same chance as everyone else. If the entry is full .... it's full. Beat by someone because they had a better starting position?...... that'll teach you to get your damn entry in earlier! Missed the closing date and turn up for a ride? Give em an observer board... maybe they'll enter in time in the future. Agree with most if not all and if sending your entry in the same envolope to ride together is going to work then that answers my previous question about fuelling etc. My question was following a suggestion that all entries are put in to a hat, which seems to rule this out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabie Posted September 10, 2007 Report Share Posted September 10, 2007 as for online entries, there have been a few people in the mx world playing with it two (different i think) systems are out there - one was used for the Sheffield supercross last year and the other by chalgrove club recently (a few MMX's, etc i think). saying that the ACU office did the Maxxis MX champs entries for 2005 and 2006, i think they had some software. there are several issues around it that need to be resolved, but in principle it could work. off the top of my head; * who pays who and how - vat issues, credit card handling fees, etc * any system needs a paperwork based alternative for those folk who aren't as au fait with technology * at what point do entries close, how is the data handed to the club / secretary who does the signing on, etc * late entries management * quotas, reserve, class allocations, etc * number allocation - as above - random of a formula ??? * insurance / legalities, wording etc - i think this has been resolved since a similar system has/is being used IMHO a well-designed system should be run from a sever at ACU house, with every club having access to it if they want it. the VAT issue could be tricky, but it would allow validation of licences / clubs at source (presumably the programme could access the membership database and validate the entry). If technologically it could be done, and work (reliably) those of us in the know could then turn our efforts to lobbying the ACU to do something with this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted September 10, 2007 Report Share Posted September 10, 2007 as for online entries, there have been a few people in the mx world playing with ittwo (different i think) systems are out there - one was used for the Sheffield supercross last year and the other by chalgrove club recently (a few MMX's, etc i think). saying that the ACU office did the Maxxis MX champs entries for 2005 and 2006, i think they had some software. there are several issues around it that need to be resolved, but in principle it could work. off the top of my head; * who pays who and how - vat issues, credit card handling fees, etc * any system needs a paperwork based alternative for those folk who aren't as au fait with technology * at what point do entries close, how is the data handed to the club / secretary who does the signing on, etc * late entries management * quotas, reserve, class allocations, etc * number allocation - as above - random of a formula ??? * insurance / legalities, wording etc - i think this has been resolved since a similar system has/is being used IMHO a well-designed system should be run from a sever at ACU house, with every club having access to it if they want it. the VAT issue could be tricky, but it would allow validation of licences / clubs at source (presumably the programme could access the membership database and validate the entry). If technologically it could be done, and work (reliably) those of us in the know could then turn our efforts to lobbying the ACU to do something with this All those things you listed are all solvable. Good to see some forward thinking! ....and f***wits who enter 37 times because they really shouldn't be on line Yup, you're right. Dont know what I was thinking suggesting this to be honest. Introducing technology into trials !! I'll give it 30 years and suggest it again ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilco Posted September 10, 2007 Report Share Posted September 10, 2007 Neither of you are going to win the trial but you want to beat each other so why shouldn't you two be grouped together like the top lads? Also finally, I think the top boys/girls have earned the right to have a little preferential treatment. Don't agree with your statement there atom,surley if there good enough to catch sponsor's eye's and so on in the first place,surley there good enough to start in any position in the trial and come home with the right result's after they get a sponsor deal. In a marathan the top runner's normaly start off first so there not stuck behind the slow runner's,would'nt that make more sense in trial's aswell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted September 10, 2007 Report Share Posted September 10, 2007 In a marathan the top runner's normaly start off first so there not stuck behind the slow runner's,would'nt that make more sense in trial's aswell. If the top boys started first, no one would ever get by them They would still be looking at section 1 when the rest of the field would be finished and in the pub Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpa3 Posted September 10, 2007 Report Share Posted September 10, 2007 Yes, and they'd still want to push in the queue at the last section becasue they were short of time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hillary Posted September 10, 2007 Report Share Posted September 10, 2007 I can't believe my column has just started all this nonsense. There is only one rule that matters, Rapley has to have a number between middle and end, and when it comes to queues he's allowed to go to the front. And the first to say he does that anyway gets taken to court!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinell Posted September 10, 2007 Report Share Posted September 10, 2007 I can't believe my column has just started all this nonsense. It was that AtomAnt that started it, honest guv' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapshot 3 Posted September 10, 2007 Report Share Posted September 10, 2007 I can't believe my column has just started all this nonsense. It was that AtomAnt that started it, honest guv' I'm wi K...it was that beggar Atom that stirred it first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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