Sherco 320 4t

[steve fracy]

I guess my point is that unless you are an expert/Pro rider, all this infatuation with "the latest" greatest bike is really rather secondary to some actual riding skill. I learned this only because I have been riding my 85 300 Fantic twinshock alot in the last year, and was able to do it quite handily all the way up to advanced lines. Yes, no matter what level you are at, a bike that is easier to ride will make you save some points. But, sometimes on these threds( that ones for you Lane) you see folks get bent out of shape about what bike is the best. Hey, they are all good, AND, unless you are Bou, Raga, or Lampkin, they are WAY better than us!!

I feel my Sherco 4T makes me a better rider because of the way it grips, the powerful motor, and it just feels right for me, which in turn gives me a lot of confidence.

When Bernie used to do his schools, he would make a point of making a difficult section, and then when people were having trouble with it, jump on the oldest (usually a twinshock if it was around) antiquated bike, and clean the section right in front of everyone just to show it could be done! hell, I would guess that a 200 or 250 is plenty bike for 80% of people who ride trials. But we all crave the lightest and most powerful. To each his own!

Steve

[malibudon]

Yes, no matter what level you are at, a bike that is easier to ride will make you save some points.

...

I feel my Sherco 4T makes me a better rider because of the way it grips, the powerful motor, and it just feels right for me, which in turn gives me a lot of confidence.

...

But we all crave the lightest and most powerful. To each his own!

We're somewhat on the same page here, as you've abandoned the concept that a new top-of-the-line bike is no better than a 10-year-old bike. The attributes of current bikes give us more confidence than what is offered by a 10-year-old technology.

And, while most of us (unwisely) crave the lightest and most powerful, I don't fall into that trap. When it came time to replace my 315R, I bought a Gas Gas 200 and a Beta Rev-3 200 before settling on the '07 4RT (I wasn't convinced by the '05). And, certainly, the 4RT is neither the lightest nor the most powerful. I considered the Scorpa SY200F, but just didn't feel that the cost of the bike was justified due to the antiquated motor. Others can disagree, and my wife (a novice rider who has inherited by 315R) may well end up with an SY125F. She used to love her TL125 and the SY125F is, I think, about what the TL would be today had it never stopped production.

[for artie]

As for fly by wire throttle, I like the idea of being able to map the speed of the response of the throttle (although you can do that now with a slow/quick action throttle...) but I'm not sure if I'd have full trust in it. Electronics do play up occassionally, fact, and just imagine the consequences of one little blip sending a message to the EFI to snap the throttle wide open - just when the bike is approaching a serious drop off.... unlikely? - probably, but not impossible.

Throttles have been sticking WIDE OPEN on trials bikes for years. The cable and slide have been a weak and dangerous point on trials bike for years! fly by wire could be programmed to shut off automaticaly in case of severe over-rev. the Mont will shut off automatically after 7 seconds on it side. this is a great feature.

[woody]

If you read what I said, I didn't say a fly by wire throttle was likely to stick open - I said an electronic malfunction in the ECU could tell the throttle to snap wide open all on its own at a very dangerous point in a section. I didn't say this would happen, I said it could. Nothing to do with sticking throttles.

Electronics play up, indisputable fact, that's why your home PC does things it shouldn't, or things that you don't tell it to - like crashing. It's why my car randomly but suddenly suffers momentary but complete switch off of fuel and ignition - because there is a fault either in the ECU or one of the 30-odd sensors that is either causing overboost on the turbo when it isn't required, or detecting overboost that isn't actually happening. Whichever, it won't show up on a diagnostic, even when it is happening but there is obviously something wrong.

If a blip did cause a fuel surge at the wrong moment, the fact that a bike will automatically cut off in case of severe over-rev isn't going to help as by the time the cut-off sensor has done its job, rider and bike are already in free fall for an unplanned meeting with terra firma below. Neither is the automatic cut-off after 7 seconds of the bike lying on it's side of much use to the rider who's body is also lying on its side next to it at the foot of a nasty drop off and whose own cut-off has been triggered due to the trauma suffered from the multiple injuries received.

Anyway, this thread was supposed to be about comparisons between the performance of the Sherco 4T and the others. The Sherco doesn't have EFI so all the arguments are irrelavent, the point is what is the Sherco like to ride in the sections relative to the others. I owned a 4RT for 18 months, I've had a brief try recently on a 2005 Sherco with all the problems sorted out. I liked the better torque of the Sherco, liked the way you can chug it along at very low revs on the throttle only, liked the steering better. 4RT had better rear suspension, front is pretty much the same on all current bikes to me. Both have enough power unless you're a top national runner and want more from the Mont. Average Joes don't need it. Sherco had a better clutch action. Mont was a bugger to start in gear, Sherco wasn't. I didn't dislike the Mont but wouldn't have another unless the tickover could run at what I'd call normal for a trials bike and the clutch was sorted. The Sherco didn't cough stall when I tried it but I didn't try and snap the throttle wide from zero revs as you don't do that in sections, so pointless. Someone mentioned that the 4RT won't stall snapping the throttle open but as it doesn't idle at less than 1800 revs it's not a similar comparison.

Both are good bikes, the Mont has proved itself generally reliable although there are cases of the crankcase being damaged around the kickstart return stop which can be very expensive to fix if not inside warranty. The Sherco had its teething troubles but it remains to be seen how the 07 fairs with reliability.

Only way to really find out which is best for you is to try them yourself and get along to one of the test days that must be coming up soon and ride them back to back on as many different types of sections as possible. People will give you all sorts of opnions but bottom line is yours is the only opinion that counts when its your money...

[malibudon]

The Sherco didn't cough stall when I tried it but I didn't try and snap the throttle wide from zero revs as you don't do that in sections, so pointless.

Just to be clear, I cracked open the throttle to get up a small step (less than two feet). It wasn't about whacking it wide open. You're right. No one I know does that and it would be a pointless test. The other rider I saw have the same experience was going up a taller step, but he was not turning the throttle any more (and probably less) than half-open.

This isn't a problem endemic to Shercos. It's endemic to four-strokes with standard carburetors.

[atomant]

If you read what I said, I didn't say a fly by wire throttle was likely to stick open - I said an electronic malfunction in the ECU could tell the throttle to snap wide open all on its own at a very dangerous point in a section. I didn't say this would happen, I said it could. Nothing to do with sticking throttles.

You make a valid point but I cant see that they would design a unit that would fail to critical. In other words, if it fails, it will fail to a safe position and shut off. Simply because if it did and an accident occured, they would be sued to the beams. It simply would not comply to CE certification.

Also, as I just flown 4000+ miles in an Emirates 777-300ER which is digital fly-by-wire, it better not break down on the trip back

[sirhc]

You guys have covered a lot of stuff

First off I am still really liking my 3.2, more every time I ride it. I still have yet to stall it under normal riding conditions. For me I don't want EFI so much for the way it performs while I am riding, but rather for the simplicity of it. You never have to work on it, rejet it or anything. Just get on and go. What could be simpler? That's why I like EFI. Living with a bike that has EFI for almost a year the whole EFI debate seems silly, of course EFI is better. It just doesn't make one complete bike better than another. "Fly-by-wire" has been used on planes and cars for years, anybody heard of a car going full throttle threw an intersection because of it? A bike would be no different, I would welcome it.

In a earlier post it was said a Sherco was smoother than a Montesa? Well that may be the case with an '05 Sherco, but my '07 3.2 produces much more power and has more snap off the bottom than my 4rt with an HRC 260cc big bore, cam, Mitani exhaust, with more aggressive mapping. I like it that way

I also agree that the bike makes very little difference in your score. My first trials bike was a used '97 Beta and I'm sure there is nothing that I couldn't do on that bike that I can do on a new bike, but I will for sure have a lot more fun doing it on a new bike and isn't that why we do this?

For me right now I'm having a lot of fun on the Sherco 3.2 4t.

[steve fracy]

Nice to hear your update Chris. If you are enjoying the power and motor of the 3.2 in SoCal, I only wish you get to experience it in very slippery conditons. At the risk of sounding like a broken record, my 3.2 grips far better than anything I have ever ridden. It is like cheating! It makes me smile everytime I ride it, and in the end, isn't that what it's all about?

Steve

[ianc]

The Sherco didn't cough stall when I tried it but I didn't try and snap the throttle wide from zero revs as you don't do that in sections, so pointless.

It wasn't about whacking it wide open. You're right. No one I know does that and it would be a pointless test.

guess i should change my riding style then !!!!

[ianc]

A very insightful post Woody! Any relation to Steve " Woody" Hole or just a coincedince?? First off, Ihave no axe to grind with Montesa's at all. They are very well built bikes. Just not my cup a tea for several reasons as has been discussed already. The whole EFI vs carb debate is so rediculous to me as I believe that 95% of us who actually buy bikes, have no real issue with the difference between carbs and EFI as far as making us better rider's. Most who read this website, myself included, have more technique issues, rather than technology issues, and I would dare to say that our level of riding would not change too much even if we were riding bikes of 10yr old technology!

That being said, I absolutely love my Sherco 4T!!! I have never ridden or owned a 4T before this. It is light, powerful,and grips better than any other bike I have ever owned!! The fact that is has a prehistoric carb on it will not detract from the fact that it is fun to ride and I believe makes me a better rider!!

Steve, I'm not sure I'm following your contradictory statements. You claim that a 10-year-old bike is as good as new for most of us. But, your Sherco 4T makes you a better rider.

I can't say my '07 4RT makes me a better rider than my professionally maintained '98 315R, but I can tell you that I perform better in sections and practice on the 4RT. Given that, it seems the new technology trumps the old, as I'm the same guy I was a few months ago (only older). However, the 4RT does give me confidence to try more difficult obstacles. Much of that confidence comes from the reliability of power delivery that EFI offers, compared to a 4T with a carb (been there, coughed that).

Does confidence = skill? There's an interesting discussion right there.

i hear what youre both saying !!!

the last bike i owned was a 1986 ty 175 twinshock . so now i started riding again , im on technology nearer 20 years than 10 , but i guess things havent changed that much in my ability !!

most noticeable thing is the smoothness of the sherco ride . but id even go as far as to say , in some ways , the 2003 sherco 250 is TOO similar to my old 86

when i used to imagine doing a small jump on the ty , it was smooth and shock free on landing ............... getting on the bike and doing the jump jolted me back to reality !!!

whereas on the newer bike , its just like i imagine the landing to be !! (if you can make sense of that statement )

due to the better modern suspension , its less tiring to ride , but apart from that , id say ( at my level of ability ) my "modern " sherco is just as hard to ride as my old ty , and hasnt improved my terrible riding !!

if i upgraded to the latest most powerfull sherco , all spectators would have to take 10 strides backwards

[copemech]

Somewhere on here there is the video of the reporter learning to ride, a recent post.

They put him on a 4T Sherco '05. Very gentile machine and easily controlled.

I must admit that I have had some regrets about not taking the bike Ishy got, although with his insight and ability he has taken it even better!

[baldilocks]

I'm not really a fourstroke fan as in the UK they are between

[steve fracy]

If I had to take a guess, I would first say weight, and also not being convinced like some of us on here, that EFI is the way to go. I do remember when the Sherco first came out there was a statement made that keeping it simple for the consumer was a concern.

[atomant]

....however IF EFI is the way to go why havent sherco used the system off their enduro bike on the 4 stroke trials bike ? It may need to be re mapped to be effective but it may give more reliable power.

Thats a damn good question! Maybe one day we will find out !

[atomant]

....I do remember when the Sherco first came out there was a statement made that keeping it simple for the consumer was a concern.

EFI IS Simple. It works perfect and has virtually no maintenance. What could be better?