nigel dabster Posted October 22, 2007 Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 I think RMC would very much liked to have run another A & B National, one or two of us weren't that happy we we not offered one in 2007 after the first class critical review we received from the riders in 2006 but one was still applied for in 2008. The whole problem though is the congestion of the calendar, our diary & that of the ACU simply doesn't match. It's a big shame as we have a first class venue & a fair bit of experience at running proper Trials. I think there is more mileage in giving the rounds to Clubs like richmond who put on probably the best round in 2006, in many peoples view. They certainly have the land facilities and experience, so it would be good for them to be given another chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted October 22, 2007 Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 Hi Bumpyi was not suggesting that youth riders could not learn anything from other riders as we all know they can, but having 5 or so youth riders in the BC riding the expert course, is not the be all and end all, these riders as we know all set of 1st in the trial so are often section scrubbers for the rest, so i think if they want the experiance of riding these events then good let them ride, But the whole youth callender should not revolve round this which is what seems to be happening, i do also know that sorting dates must be a mare for the ACU, maybe by adopting the system of not having youth and adult nats on the same day has gone one step to far and made thier problems to great I think that Alexz benefitted greatly in 2006 from riding the British Expert route (think he won it actually) so for the top 5 its superb and without doubt great that these lads get experience of minders fim stop rules time(?) etc etc. I am sure ross did too, sam and lee as well so this is essential to keep in. The scrubbing isn't really an issue at all as the practice lap takes care of this to some extent and sections at some events I saw actually were better earlier. The whole youth calender does not revolve around this there are lots of other factors as mentioned here and on the other thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted October 22, 2007 Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 I think there is more mileage in giving the rounds to Clubs like richmond who put on probably the best round in 2006, in many peoples view. I am not creeping here ( honest guv ) But Ross and his dad still mention the 2006 round put on by Perce and the team even today as being one of the best British trials they rode all year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agiow Posted October 22, 2007 Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 Totally agree with Nigel Dabster & AtomAnt. Why not give Richmond a round, particular if they can run on one of the dates the T & E Committee want They Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perce Posted October 22, 2007 Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 Totally agree with Nigel Dabster & AtomAnt.Why not give Richmond a round, particular if they can run on one of the dates the T & E Committee want They Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
as iow Posted October 22, 2007 Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 Totally agree with Nigel Dabster & AtomAnt.Why not give Richmond a round, particular if they can run on one of the dates the T & E Committee want They Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westie Posted October 22, 2007 Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 I was surprised to see that Richmond never got a round this year as it was the best in 2006 and even more surprised no round in 2008 ? I also see that that a round has been allocated on May 4th. this would have been a good date for Lochaber who I know tried for a round in 2008 with the pre65 on Friday and Saturday youth A,B Sunday and the SSDT starting on Monday this would in my opinion make sense as it is one of the biggest events of the trials year and rounds in Scotland , England and Wales . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john collins Posted October 23, 2007 Report Share Posted October 23, 2007 I must admit I am getting a lit bit lost with this - as well as a little bit fed up - so can we have a reality check. Publishing lists of dates - and having votes etc - is a non-starter and there would not be enough time and space to go into al this - buy I can assure you that this sort of system just does not work. There are two posts on TC regarding Youth Champ dates - unfortunately they all seem to contain views on the same topic - but it is difficult to switch back and forth - and it does appear that some of the things I am typing here - I am sure I typed a few days ago on the other one - so to get the full picture - everyone needs to read both. Now the most important bit - If I had the time - I would this morning count the number of words written in last few days with suggestions to do this or that - or why is this or that done. Obviously there is often a difference of opinion - and this is good - it would be a sad world if we all thought the same. We have no problem with this and certainly 99.9999% have been constructive and sincerely meant - and even if criticism Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick_heane Posted October 23, 2007 Report Share Posted October 23, 2007 How about a formula for dates as follows? 1) All world rounds 1st week end of the month. 2) All British Adults 2nd week end of the month 3) All British Youth 3rd week end of the month 4) All UEM 4th week end of the month. I know that their would be a few issues such as SSDT, Scarborough 2 day, YMSA etc, but if year after year we had such a structure every one involved would have the ability to plan for the long term. This would also make the ACUs job a little less stressful. Also the championships would make more sense with improved flexibility if each championship allowed two none scoring rounds per rider, i.e. eight of ten to count. This would save people money on the events they did not wish to ride due to long distance travel and give some flexibility to event planning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john collins Posted October 23, 2007 Report Share Posted October 23, 2007 Fantastic idea Nick - and I really do mean that - ( not being sarcastic ) And it - or similar has been thought of /suggested for both Trials & Enduro - and probably MX and R/Race and Grass Track as well. Big problem is that the idea relies on the FIM and UEM falling into line - as well as all the other World & European countries - who also have National considerations etc ( just waiting for confirmation this weekend on a UEM enduro which may be affected by an election in that country) Also in FIM and UEM terms - it is often the " promoter" that picks the date - Sheffield has suffered from this in past - and these promoters are not in the slightest worried about our UK Championships. FIM and UEM really do have their own problems finalising dates - which is why we always face this mad rush in Sept/Oct. If FIM and UEM dates were finalised in say July - it would make the job at least 50% easier - and allow time for more consultation weith clubs and more time to solve problems etc. They suffer just as much - and are often waiting for confirmation from organisers etc - who themselves are waiting for confirmation on land etc - the final calendar would not have been announced/confirmed until last Sat/Sunday - the UEM calendar will be confirmed next weekend. I am afraid - at present there is little if any chance of that happening - but maybe one day ? I would certainly welcome it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikespace Posted October 23, 2007 Report Share Posted October 23, 2007 (edited) I salute your patience John, as I see your frustration meter hovering around the red. It's annoying that from the outside some people assume that decisions have been made through bloody mindedness and minimum effort without having any real knowledge of what goes on behind the scenes. There's always some chump who imagines that ACU House is a large gold plated manor house where the fat cats are wined and dined, then chauffered home. We've got to remember that the ACU is primarily an organisation based on volunteers, starting from the individual ACU centres and ranging up to ACU towers. Some people make the effort to even things up throughout the year by putting the work effort in whilst getting benefit from the sport. Some people don't even things up at all, and these fall in to two categories, the ones who do no work and take everything they can out of the sport, and the ones who take very little out of the sport but are happy to put the work in week after week. I'd hope to be able to put myself in the breaking even category. Every now and then some ar5e tries my patience and I think, why the **** do I bother at all. I'd imagine I get 1% of the hassle that the ACU 'fat cats' get so I've no idea what keeps some of them going, other than a love for the sport. I'm not trying to blow smoke up the 4rse of a few ACU officials. I've seen the work going on (from the outside) and I know it's a fragile balance where we could end up without the luxury of these 'fat cats' working for us. I know I can't afford the time to do it, and probably wouldn't have the patience if this forum is anything to go by, so I would urge people to use these forums to access the ACU to make constructive comments without throwing bull5h1t around. Edited October 23, 2007 by bikespace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perce Posted October 23, 2007 Report Share Posted October 23, 2007 Got to say that under the current system of date distribution it's pointless RMC applying for a round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john collins Posted October 23, 2007 Report Share Posted October 23, 2007 I have just spent a little time trying to look at this from another angle. Basically in 2008 calender we have 15 FIM /UEM dates 1 Inter Centre 7 British Champ Total = 23. 52 weekends - but of course no-one will want to run on Xmas/New year and some of very early & late weekends - so let asume 40 usable dates - that is more or less leaving out best part of 3 months - and I am not sure we should not be sticking to about 42 - 44 - but let us stay with 40 for now. So - 40 available 23 spoken for - Leaves 17 ? We are looking for 8. On paper it should not be a problem - But we all know it is - and if we wish to start missing out Non-National - and Prestigeous events - obviously the number of available dates reduces. Now it is becoming apparent that something will have to give - although I am not convinced that finding 8 from 17 should not be achievable - with some flexibility? So - what will have to change? I see the options as: a) We remove the opportunity for Youth Top 5 to be able to ride in Brit Adult Champ We - through date allocation - make it more difficult -or perhaps even impossible for a Youth A to contest both Youth Champ A and ride in Brit Adult - they would have to choose - possibilities here that if they stuck with Youth A - they would probably pick up some Brit Adult - but this would not be certain by any means. c) Those riding in UEM and FIM would have to make the decision to forego Youth Championships - and choose International honours instead - I must admit I am not too keen on any of above. We cannot keep talking about Federtaions helping Youth progress - and then in next breath - handicap them? - but that may be only my view and it must remain an option. However - I hope that about sums it up. My choice is still to try to juggle dates/Championships etc as we have been doing - and will now have to stick with for 08 - but I accept that there is a danger of trying to please everyone and land up pleasing no-one. A less democrtaic way - is easy. The T & E Committee in Oct of any year look at the FIM/UEM and Brit calendar - and just pick out say 8 suitable dates - spread widely throughout year - then Clubs are asked who wants to run on one of these 8 dates - no alternatives. If more than 1 Club choose date - and all other things are equal - we just work out a pure rotational system ( beware this good sounding idea- as it can mean there will be several years before a Club get a chance). It also definitely means that Clubs who can run on a part of year that never appeals to FIM/UEM/Brit Champ - get a round year after year - and I have a whole host of complaints about this. This is not very far from what actually happens in Brit Adult Champ at present . Anyway - I think that is basically it - some hard decisions are going to have to be made. It will be important that the people who actualy run - or intend to run rounds have a say - and I would hope that those who actually ride in them wil equally have a say. So I again draw attention to Youth Trials Forum in November. Now just in case you think I do not like an argument or challenge - next question which will be high on Forum agenda for 2008 - which rules will we use for Youth Champ - Present - or FIM !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ysb Posted October 24, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2007 oh Dear !! Seconds Out Round 2 FIM for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick_heane Posted October 24, 2007 Report Share Posted October 24, 2007 (edited) The only answer that I can think of, is run all the Youth abcd on Saturday's , that's fixed it. The cosultant sitting in the corner of our office is paid Edited October 24, 2007 by nick_heane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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