tordijarres Posted October 23, 2007 Report Share Posted October 23, 2007 I may have missed something, but i thought that outside assistance wasn't allowed at the Scott? Hence why do Dibs' and Shirty's reports both openly talk about changing wheels? Mr Jarvis was excluded a few years ago for an alleged bike swap. Whilst we're on the subject, my wife and my Mum walked the 1/2 mile or so along with our 3 kids (2 of whom pre-school) to see me at the final petrol check, where I am told there were multiple signs up stating "no vehicular access", so imagine their surprise to find a whole host of factory vans at said petrol check...presumably awaiting with fresh bikes/wheels to save the riders the bother of having to change front wheel punctures etc. With all the furore about F+M, this was rather irresponsible and selfish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perce Posted October 23, 2007 Report Share Posted October 23, 2007 (edited) Find the bodies & it will done! But at 200+ folk out there already, good luck. Why ever go to Hurst in the first place though? Bridge End to Holgate is far easier & very few do it. There's sections & two road crossings far more accessible than Hurst ever is. A junior club member was verbally abused by Trial followers when attempting to stop traffic in the morning, she was asked to help after we realised the signs weren't having any effect. What do we do? Stop helping in an understaffed fuel stop during rush hour & go bollock pillocks that can't read? Edited October 23, 2007 by PERCE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldilocks Posted October 23, 2007 Report Share Posted October 23, 2007 Your both right, top lads have enough advantage already without having outriders such as fuji kicking about and then spare wheels available but as Perce said you need an awful lot of marshalls to stop this on the scott course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cota kid Posted October 23, 2007 Report Share Posted October 23, 2007 (edited) Your both right, top lads have enough advantage already without having outriders such as fuji kicking about and then spare wheels available but as Perce said you need an awful lot of marshalls to stop this on the scott course. Can you explain how Fujigas riding around was an advantage to any rider. I witnessed plenty of people helping riders with the choice of line in sections, but this wasn't limited to the top riders. I don't know the rules regarding changing of wheels, but if it breaks the rules then it should be penalised. As regards the statement regarding fresh bikes, I think that is a load of rubbish. If it is true name and shame. Edited October 23, 2007 by Cota Kid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tordijarres Posted October 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2007 (edited) The point about "spare bike" was that it has, allegedly been deployed in the past (Jarvis- was excluded). In terms of traffic, well if it stated in the regs that anybody connected to any rider seen flouting such signs would invoke exclusion of said rider, I think we could safely say it would stop- although it may take one such exclusion to show folk it wasn't an idle threat. Of course everyone helps with lines- that's an accepted part of the trial. What I'm talking about is using spares which the rider isn't carrying- like wheels/handlebars etc. Now one could argue that if the top guys didn't have access to such, to which they are accustomed, they may not show, but as long as it's the same rule for all, then I don't think that would happen, AND it may stop them riding so fast, giving us mortals more of a chance of finishing in time- result! Maybe Perce could be the roving traffic warden. issuing yellow and red cards!!!! Edited October 23, 2007 by TordiJarres Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldilocks Posted October 23, 2007 Report Share Posted October 23, 2007 Your both right, top lads have enough advantage already without having outriders such as fuji kicking about and then spare wheels available but as Perce said you need an awful lot of marshalls to stop this on the scott course. Can you explain how Fujigas riding around was an advantage to any rider. I witnessed plenty of people helping riders with the choice of line in sections, but this wasn't limited to the top riders. I don't know the rules regarding changing of wheels, but if it breaks the rules then it should be penalised. As regards the statement regarding fresh bikes, I think that is a load of rubbish. If it is true name and shame. If fuji and other good riders present but not competing are equally helpful to all then fine but its not in the spirit of the event. Did fuji point out any lines to Graham Jarvis ? Also lots of people shout out lines to you when your riding the Scott but some peoples advice is worth a lot more. Ie John Shirt or Kinell who would you listen to for directions Cota Kid ? do you think fuji, shirty and co would be hangin around to advise us ? as regards spare wheels how many ptrivateers have one and someone prepared to chase them round the fuel checks ? its all academic really, as Perce says and I agree, you cant effectively police the Scott. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cota kid Posted October 23, 2007 Report Share Posted October 23, 2007 (edited) I did not see Fujigas point out any lines to any riders although he did point his camera a lot. The likes of John Lampkin and Jake Miller were pointing out the lines in sections to all and sundry, no exceptions! Can Tordi please enlighten me into why he used the phrase fresh / spare bikes in this posting, to me this insinuates that riders swapped bikes, but with no proof to back it up. This has happened in the past, not an alleged incident and the rider who did it got caught, I am not aware that this occured during this years event. And such inuendo is potential damaging to the competition. I do not know the rule regarding swapping of wheels, handlebars etc, is there one? Edited October 23, 2007 by Cota Kid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tordijarres Posted October 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2007 To Cota Kid, I haven't stated in any of my postings that someone changed a whole bike (this year). The point is they have a spare bike in the van from which they can take parts to replace any broken ones. No system would be perfect but perhaps some wheel hub tags as per SSDT (in the old days) may be beneficial.It's really just food for thought, we may decide we are all happy with the staus quo, but IMO swapping wheels isn't on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perce Posted October 23, 2007 Report Share Posted October 23, 2007 Maybe Perce could be the roving traffic warden. issuing yellow and red cards!!!! perhaps not, one of those lovely people in a bright yellow jacket controlling the road crossing on Reels Head told me off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cota kid Posted October 23, 2007 Report Share Posted October 23, 2007 Perhaps somebody can clarify the rules regarding spares. But there are plenty of riders in the Scott who have friends and family following them around, encouraging them and providing drinks, spares, fuel etc its not just limited to the top riders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perce Posted October 23, 2007 Report Share Posted October 23, 2007 From the Regs:- UNAUTHORISED ASSISTANCE: A driver should not be met or accompanied during any part of the Trial by any other person or vehicles with the object of obtaining mechanical assistance therefrom. A driver shall not assist any other driver in any manner which might be deemed by the Clerk of the Course to be pre-arranged or organised. Fitting of supplied parts other than those carried by the rider will be deemed to be unauthorised assistance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpa3 Posted October 23, 2007 Report Share Posted October 23, 2007 Pretty plain and simple there then isn't it? Any protests gone in?..... No? There's no point in complaining then. Put it down to a professional foul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig10 Posted October 23, 2007 Report Share Posted October 23, 2007 (edited) 'Can of worms' springs to mind! It's the same at the SSDT, bikes disappearing into manufacturers workshops etc for a bit of emergency repairs. It's tolerated, everyone knows it goes on, and let's face it, with the fragility of modern bikes and the speed/distance that they're doing, without that bit of extra assistance there'd be quite a few less finishers at the trial's end. The same blind eye is turned to everyone doing it, not just the top lads, so it's more or less a level playing field if you fancy shelling out for a couple of spare wheels etc etc Edited October 23, 2007 by craig10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outlaw dave Posted October 24, 2007 Report Share Posted October 24, 2007 At the 1983 ISDE held in Wales, I asked one of the Welsh lads about something that pertained to one of our Canadian riders - his reply "It's only cheating if you get caught - the rest of the time it's called gamesmanship" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trialsnutterman Posted October 24, 2007 Report Share Posted October 24, 2007 I can't belive Shirty has said this "The Scott is Waynes favourite event so you can be assured of maximum commitment. A quick wheel change because of a puncture over Grouse Moor slowed him down slightly but he battled on with a good observation score 64 and finished 7th at the end." "Sam Haslam was 13th with both steady time and observation scores. Sam also suffered a puncture which he fixed and then later changed wheels as he didnt trust the 3 bungs that were needed to repair the slit in the tyre wall." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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