neils on wheels Posted December 7, 2007 Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 I came across this site recently & have just downloaded the December issue. The title may not entice a trials rider, but the test of Raga's 2008 bike & the 4T comparison test should. Check it out http://www.motocrossdigital.com/ The download is free Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ham2 Posted December 7, 2007 Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 I came across this site recently & have just downloaded the December issue. The title may not entice a trials rider, but the test of Raga's 2008 bike & the 4T comparison test should.Check it out http://www.motocrossdigital.com/ The download is free Just read that mag' yesterday..not bad but I think it's lost something in translation ,unlike the 08 pro review they did in September. Let's not gripe tho'..it was only a few weeks ago we had the first pic' of Raga's bike but already they've had a journo' riding it and reporting back! Great photo of Raga with his new (light) bike perched on his shoulders! Good to see some back to back comparisons as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjbiker Posted December 7, 2007 Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 Nice one Well worth the download, especially if you're in the market for a four stroke. Lots of info and cool pics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted December 7, 2007 Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 They are talking about the bike being 62Kg in that write up. I can't see how they have managed that in those pictures. 6Kgs is a lot to lose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted December 8, 2007 Report Share Posted December 8, 2007 (edited) They are talking about the bike being 62Kg in that write up. I can't see how they have managed that in those pictures. 6Kgs is a lot to lose. Frame lighter, carbon bits lighter, think it has less gears, ti bits (fair bit on exhaust alone), 6 kgs is possible but must be on the limit. Maybe measured with a full tank of fuel and indicators on standard bike! Edited December 8, 2007 by Nigel Dabster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted December 8, 2007 Report Share Posted December 8, 2007 Frame lighter, carbon bits lighter, think it has less gears, ti bits (fair bit on exhaust alone), 6 kgs is possible but must be on the limit.Maybe measured with a full tank of fuel and indicators on standard bike! With all due respect, how have you come to make the statement that 6kgs is possible by what you have said alone.? Its ok adding some carbon bits and modifying the frame to make them lighter, but to lose 6kgs is very significant on a bike which is already very light in comparison to other machines. They of course have to maintain its strength as well. Assuming the frame is still made from the same material, it would surprise me if they could get away with more than 1Kg weight loss and maintain the necessary strength. In the exhaust system, Aluminium is nearly half the specific gravity of titanium so that means you would have to use less than half the material before you make weight savings. They would have been able to do that I would think but not a great deal. How much does a gear weigh? That would leave 3-4kg weight loss on the 'carbon bits' as you say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ham2 Posted December 8, 2007 Report Share Posted December 8, 2007 To be fair the 62kg weight quoted was quantified with the word ''rumour'' . It can't be so far away from that can it? Maybe that small fuel tank is full of Hydrogen..never did the Hindenburg any harm . Maybe it's got that new 'Atom' engine that you've been working on..how much does that weigh?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted December 8, 2007 Report Share Posted December 8, 2007 Maybe it's got that new 'Atom' engine that you've been working on..how much does that weigh?? I aim to lose around 1.1kg over a current 300 raga engine and approximately 30mm in width. I'm also toying with the idea of just 3 gears with a secondary selector for low/high range but I am still researching this idea. Ideally suited to the Scott for instance This project is just a hobby at this stage as my day job keeps me just a tad busy at the moment and engine development is VERY expensive so don't expect to see an Atom engine just yet. This is a 2 year project I think. If it is a success, I plan to take it commercial for all three disciplines Trials, Enduro & MX. If its not, then I will scrap it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jezza Posted December 8, 2007 Report Share Posted December 8, 2007 They keep the weight down the same way as I keep the weight down when I buy bananas in the supermarket. When you put them in the bag and then onto the self-service scales for that little label to be printed out, you juuuust keep hold of the bag handles and take a smidge of the weight with your hand. Allegedly. It's my way of getting back at them for price fixing milk and getting rid of their over packaging. Also when buying broccoli, tear off the stalky bits, no-one eats that so why pay for it. More tips next week shoppers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted December 8, 2007 Report Share Posted December 8, 2007 (edited) With all due respect, how have you come to make the statement that 6kgs is possible by what you have said alone.? Its ok adding some carbon bits and modifying the frame to make them lighter, but to lose 6kgs is very significant on a bike which is already very light in comparison to other machines. They of course have to maintain its strength as well. Assuming the frame is still made from the same material, it would surprise me if they could get away with more than 1Kg weight loss and maintain the necessary strength. In the exhaust system, Aluminium is nearly half the specific gravity of titanium so that means you would have to use less than half the material before you make weight savings. They would have been able to do that I would think but not a great deal. How much does a gear weigh? That would leave 3-4kg weight loss on the 'carbon bits' as you say. For someone building his own engine looks like you have alot to learn! The front pipe on a Gas Gas is steel so if you change that to Ti then the saving there is significant. If you read the story in full "they" claim a weight saving by using a different section for the frame. The carbon back box must save a bit over ally as well, and so on. Keep up. Same engine to do trials mx and enduro, ambitious! Edited December 8, 2007 by Nigel Dabster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted December 8, 2007 Report Share Posted December 8, 2007 For someone building his own engine looks like you have alot to learn!Not too much to build it, but to get it to work how I want then without a doubt Yes, I will have a lot to learn. The front pipe on a Gas Gas is steel so if you change that to Ti then the saving there is significant. Yes, if the section is the same or less for sure. What is the weight of a standard front pipe now? A direct Ti replacement should be around half the weight. If you read the story in full "they" claim a weight saving by using a different section for the frame. The carbon back box must save a bit over ally as well, and so on. Keep up. I read the story 'in full' . That will of course reduce the weight but I am interested to see how they maintained the strength. Please tell me what the weight difference is between the two frame designs then? I will be surprised if they have managed more than 1Kg Same engine to do trials mx and enduro, ambitious! Same engine, different gearbox. It's nothing that other manufacturers haven't done already and been doing for years. Why is that ambitious? A builders labourer trying to tell me about engineering .. (no offence to other builders labourers of course only dabster) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted December 8, 2007 Report Share Posted December 8, 2007 A builders labourer trying to tell me about engineering .. (no offence to other builders labourers of course only dabster) Builders labourer eh, now wheres that thatcher quote of yours "I always cheer up immensely if an attack is particularly wounding because I think, well, if they attack one personally, it means they have not a single argument (sic) left". No I'm not an engineer, but if you think an mx bike and trials require the same motor and different gearbox well, bring on the builders! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted December 8, 2007 Report Share Posted December 8, 2007 Even this labourer knows that if raga can compete indoors on a lighter frame it must be strong enough, and the pictures would tell any engineer how or is that just too obviuos to be true? Remind me how many international indoors you've seen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted December 8, 2007 Report Share Posted December 8, 2007 Builders labourer eh, now wheres that thatcher quote of yours "I always cheer up immensely if an attack is particularly wounding because I think, well, if they attack one personally, it means they have not a single argument (sic) left".No I'm not an engineer, but if you think an mx bike and trials require the same motor and different gearbox well, bring on the builders! HAHA I was waiting for that .. You surprised me ... you have a better memory than the average person of your senior age p.s. We are on form today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted December 8, 2007 Report Share Posted December 8, 2007 Remind me how many international indoors you've seen? Errrr . let me think.... now is it .... no, it's not that many....... Does IOW youths indoor count Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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