Andy Posted January 20, 2008 Report Share Posted January 20, 2008 Hell Fire!!! This Scottish Pre 65 Two Day Trial entry list and the eligibility of the machines argument that has cropped up in the last week since the posting in the classic forum of the accepted entries, happens every year and is one that I simply can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big john Posted January 20, 2008 Report Share Posted January 20, 2008 I agree with my learned friend Michael on quite a number of the points he makes this week. I do have (as those who read this website will know) a love for old bikes, as well as brand new ones too. I try not to get too excited about machine eligibility as it is a minefield to say the least! I do however agree to differ slightly on one point Michael makes though and that is what bikes appeared prior to 1965, that's up to 31st December 1964! When you have the opportunity to look through the SSDT programmes and I have them all since 1947 (lucky..you can say that again!) there is a vast array of unusual machines that were ridden prior to 1965, such a Puch split singles; CZ; Jawa; Zundapp (ridden by Jacky Ickx 1963) and sad to say, even a Bultaco (but not the model 10 Sammy Miller). But these machines tended to be ridden by overseas competitors! With one exception, Tommy Ollerton who rode what was best described as being close to a Sherpa N in 1963. Michael, you probably know Tommy as he was from your neck of the woods. His Bultaco was quite different from the much superior four-speed Sherpa of one Samuel Hamilton Miller! Personally I don't like to see Bultaco, Montesa or even Ossa in the Pre65 Scottish as I don't see that as being "in the spirit" of this event. I have to applaud the Pre65 Committee, being a Scot, I know probably all of them, they set out a fantastic trial; the best Pre-65 trial on the planet (in my humble opinion) and they have a very difficult job. Machine eligibility is only one of the thorny issues they have to overcome, year on year. There are others and Mike has eluded to them this week, the camp followers! Leave your bike at home unless you have got an entry or are signed in as an official. The ground up at Kinlochleven (or in my case down to Kinlochleven) comes at a price and that price is by kind permission of the landowners who only grants this benevolence to the "trial" and not the "followers". Enjoy spectating on foot to ensure the longevity of this wonderful event! Keep the spirit going forward, that's the non-liquid spirit of course! Big John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted January 20, 2008 Report Share Posted January 20, 2008 I've got this strange hunch that this weeks collumn will have a lot of viewings but few responses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapshot 3 Posted January 20, 2008 Report Share Posted January 20, 2008 Think Mike and John have summed it up really; Whatever you think the club make the rules, follow em or find yourself bounced.... As to those "MUPPETS" ( Andy you gonna roll the thread out nearer the time again??) On the way back down the Penstock Road from Duibhe Lochan my learned friend Mr OTF Grumpy Git and I stopped a couple of foreign gentlemen on big Traillie bikes from heading up to Pipeline. I really had to bite my lip to stop myself laughing whe the older one nearly dropped his, he must have been well into his 60's and I shouldn't have laughed but ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paioli Posted January 20, 2008 Report Share Posted January 20, 2008 A truly wonderful and well scripted acceptance speech, wonder if it was a pre65 regular with his own pride and joy who lost out on that ride ! perks of the trade eh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 (edited) What I can Edited January 21, 2008 by Woody Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpa3 Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 Well put. Speaking as someone who has very little interest in Pre-65 construction rules, (despite being the Clerk of the Course for a Miller Round) your entry does a good job of explaining what 'in you opinion' is going on. It's as much as we dare, to actually check for the correct carbs in scrutineering, never mind fork internals etc. I now understand why we don't check Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wetfeet Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 well said woody!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stu Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 I have'nt read all the posts yet.....................but how old were you Rappers in 1964.......................and how may trials (INTERNATIONAL) did you see/scribe to on the back of your 5th form text book..................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stu Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 Just took a peep at Woody's post.............................you've got it dead right my friend and you've won yoursel a free dinner on me at the Robregardo 2 day trial and all the good wine you and I can drink to wash it down with......................see you there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottt Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 Excellent post Woody. What i'm worried about is exactly the same thing happening in 10-15yrs or so when Twinshock becomes the new Pre-65. Which ever way you look at it Pre-65 wont or cant last for ever, the Pre-65 Scottish in say 2020, the only thing Pre-65 about 99% of the bikes entered will be the name badge on the tank. Twinshock will at some point become the new Pre-65 what would be nice if people could get together NOW and come up with a set off acceptable rules that are going to be stuck too, to prevent Twinshock trials of the future being filled with fiddle bikes, Pre -65 has gone to far now to ever be put right and for it to be what it was meant to be (old bikes getting used for what they were built for). Last issue of Classic Dirt Bike featured that Excelsior Trials bike, which to me was a proper Pre-65, compare that to the Ariel & AJS in the same issue!!! The strange thing is a lot of the riders on fiddle bikes are good riders that would be as high up the finishing order if there bikes were 100% genuine Pre-65's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abbifin Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 Excellent post Woody.Well said. The non-British bikes that I looked at were more in the spirit of the trial than a certain bedraggled James. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big john Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 (edited) The problem is (as I see it) specifically for the Pre65 Scottish Two Day Trial.... No-one has posted (yet) what they think the rules should be for a very special event with the following requirements: One winner i.e the best overall perfomance over Two Days. Best performance in a variety of capacity classes (that's up to 200cc; 201-250cc; 251 -350cc; over 351cc) Best performance Day One Best performance Day Two Best performance by a foreign rider Best performance by a rider on a rigid frame machine Best Trade supported rider Best Newcomer (that's an easy one!) Best Scotsman (that's another easy one!) Best rider over 60 at the start of the trial (an another!)... Note there are no classes for: unit/pre unit/specials/two stroke/fourstroke etc etc and there probably never will be! Over to you... Big John Edited January 21, 2008 by Big John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davieboy Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 Well put Woody. Its always about money. Though in defence of the organisers,they have a very hard job.If everyone in our sport was honest enough and not hide Betor fork internals or Yamaha cranks etc there would be no problems. I suppose some people will do amything to win. I remember riding the nostalgia trial a couple of years ago on my Bulto,there was a Majesty with a complete modern Gasser front end and rear wheel,disc brakes and all. Looked great but hardly in the spirit of twinshock is it.Sadly it broke down and did not finish the trial.Shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overthehill Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 (edited) The problem is (as I see it) specifically for the Pre65 Scottish Two Day Trial....No-one has posted (yet) what they think the rules should be for a very special event with the following requirements: Over to you... Big John one change only required - change the '65' to 'unit' the pre unit scottish two day trial I would wager that half of the regular cub/b40/bantam/sprite riders have a matchless or Ariel or Enfield or Triumph twin stashed away at the back of the garage - this would bring them all out, the sections could be straightened out a bit and we would see some real bikes out in anger. I know you will still get the highly engineered bikes but at least they will make a good noise and look great. Edited January 21, 2008 by overthehill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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