old trials fanatic Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 (edited) Why does it matter if its fair or not? In all types of competition people produce technical advantages in one form of another. If you had everyone riding a duplicate machine you would still get a winner! So my question is, where does skill come into all of this? You saying that using a lathe , milling machine etc isnt skillful? Edited January 25, 2008 by Old trials fanatic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 You saying that using a lathe , milling machine etc isnt skillful? HA HA , only you could put that slant on it OTF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 Beat me to it OTF - but it does depend on who's using it..... You're missing the point Atom - I'm not saying everyone should be on a duplicate machine - I'm saying that if you take two similar looking components, neither of which is original equipment on a Pre65 bike, the one that is made today on a lathe/milling machine costing a few hundred quid is acceptable, whereas the one sourced from a breaker's yard for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 Beat me to it OTF - but it does depend on who's using it.....You're missing the point Atom - I'm not saying everyone should be on a duplicate machine - I'm saying that if you take two similar looking components, neither of which is original equipment on a Pre65 bike, the one that is made today on a lathe/milling machine costing a few hundred quid is acceptable, whereas the one sourced from a breaker's yard for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 Note. Please accept my apologies for my ignorance on pre-65 but if you don't ask, you don't learn Oh, but if any of us could unravel the mysteries of machine eligibility....... You are not alone in your lack of understanding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 (edited) Just noticed a good example of what I mean with the appearance issue with an ebay item If you look at ebay item 330207246933 which are British REH forks / yokes and ok for Pre65 Scottish They are very similar in appearance to a pair of Ossa forks and yokes. Starting price on the REH is Edited January 25, 2008 by Woody Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big john Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 Hmmmmm.. When did Robin E Humpries (REH) start making his hubs, yolks and forks? Big John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 Unless you really know what's what they are very similar to look at but one is ok to use, the other isn't.Then look at item number 330207214066, Ceriani yokes, compared to item 280195651024, Ossa yokes. Again, very similar but Ceriani ok, Ossa not. That is what makes no sense - or is my thinking flawed in some way..... I can't for the life of me see that there will be a competitive advantage over the Ossa vs Ceriani yokes so this is completely ludicrous! I can see why you are enraged by this. It madness. Someone somewhere apply some common sense to this please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paioli Posted January 26, 2008 Report Share Posted January 26, 2008 what Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big john Posted January 26, 2008 Report Share Posted January 26, 2008 To the best of my knowledge, the organisers have no plans to create a specials class for the Pre-65 Scottish. Deryk Wylde put forward this idea many years ago for the very same reasons you have Paioli. There are plenty of "genuine" (if there is such an animal) machines out there to make up a start grid of 180 without specials. Interesting final point, Mick Grant is a well known Pre-65 competitor (amongst other things, like 7 TT wins) and he restored Irish ace Benny Crawford's HT5 Ariel many years ago. Mick rode it in a trial he told me and he finished so far down the finishers list, that he vowed never to ride it in anger ever again! Big John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie prescott Posted January 26, 2008 Report Share Posted January 26, 2008 hi Guy's Hi Big"J". What you are saying is that men were men in the fifties-sixties, and could ride a four hundred pound bike because that was the Norm. And this goes a little way to why there are so many trick parts on bikes, frames forks tanks wheels,etc. Sammy started the trend and now this is the Norm, because any one with either money or skill can now make all these lightweight parts happen. And it is so much easyer to pick a lightweight bike of the deck when you are older, don't you think? And no one wants to push a bike across a moor or up a mountian, so thats why we have PVL. Its all common sence realy, All we want to do is play with our bikes and occasionally ride them, I agree with most of what Woody say's but I think part of it is putting the Cart before the Horse so to speak. Regards Charlie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trialsrfun Posted January 27, 2008 Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 These new generation P65 bikes are here to stay no matter what is said about them and anything that adds to the sport is good surely? but not at the expense of the genuine factory made bikes, more and more are not being used because the sections do not suit them. If sections were made to be rideable/cleanable on an older bike then the advantage gained with a modded bike is reduced, anyone could win, all bikes get to be ridden, bigger entries more fun what is wrong with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie prescott Posted January 27, 2008 Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 Hi Guy's Yes TRF. you are right. If there was a weekend away in the middle of a field with a few ant hills and a little hill or two to climb, a good keg of beer and a camp fire, and intresting conversation around it. I am sure the old bikes would come out of the wood work so to speak. Could even be a show site. Stoneleigh Park, Three counties,etc ? its an idea. PS I would bring along four good-uns. and even some beer. Regards Charlie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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