rosey Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 Yep it depends how you define best... It simply has to be best of their time to be honest. I'd say Tarres is my No. 1 of all time, but like I say above, it depends how you define best. Lampkin is undeniably the best of his 'time'. It become very emotive too...same as football.. Maradonna was the best player of his time. People who really know about footy (not me!) say that he is the best player they have ever seen!. Others who don't understand professionalism say he's a cheat! Back to Lampkin...I reckon he will have a chance of stealing a win or two at a push no more. I'd say now that he has shown more determination and will than others I've seen, but that does not make up for youth/reaction time etc. (like others have said), plus that determination has to be diminishing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tricky dicky Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 I agree with Rosey about Doug being the best of "his" time. He is a great ambassador for the sport as was Tarres and he was the best in "his" time. Its never easy changing bikes at the best of times and i dint think the indoors prove a great deal. I think that Doug will achieve that magical 100th win and maybe he will sneak another couple depending on the trial, he isnt out of it yet! I think that Bou is something else though. How does he get up those massive steps on just above tickover when Raga etc are revving the nuts of their bikes and only just getting up? weird if you ask me, his technique is extraordinary! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 How does he get up those massive steps on just above tickover when Raga etc are revving the nuts of their bikes and only just getting up? weird if you ask me, his technique is extraordinary! Good question and one that I have too been intrigued by. So , when I was compiling the vids for Sheffield, I watched a lot of his moves in slow motion over and over again. It looks to me that its a combination of sheer strength & timing. The bikes suspension must be set up spot on to complement his technique as well. Simply awesome Anyway, back to the thread..... It is about Doug after all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neils on wheels Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 My view on Doug? He's certainly my favourite as he's the guy I supported in plenty of world rounds from the mid 90's onwards. At the time that he was invincible he dominated in the way Bou currently is, but I believe he did it not only with riding talent but utter dedication and focus. Is he better than the other 7 times world champion, Tarres? Who knows, but its a good pub debate. Is he better than the winner of god knows how many titles, Sammy Miller? Again, who knows. I think where Doug differs slightly to some of the other greats is that he took current riding technique and perfected it to devastating effect. I'd suggest that some others such as Vesty, Tarres, probably Sammy Miller and currently Toni Bou have moved the goalposts in a different way by introducing new riding techniques. Vesty had that bandy-legged stance that allowed the bike to move freely, Tarres pioneered the technique of breaking a section down into a number of seperate challenges and Bou is pure cyclo-trials. My take on why Bou is so effective on the 4 stroke, particularly indoors, is that he rides it like a push bike. Look how the bike trial riders approach a section. Its all the weight & hopping on the back wheel using the transfer of body weight to get the bike moving. Bou rides the 4RT like this, so the light weight & low-down tourque give him the grunt & momentum to pull off moves usually only seen on an 11Kg push bike. So back to Doug. I confidently predict he'll win more world rounds than anyone on these forums in 2008 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapshot 3 Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 (edited) I get quite irritated when every one starts talking about who's the best ever because we fundamentally can't come up with a formula to show who is the best ever. This topic raises it head on here every few months and I guess we have the same answers and ideas every few months..... My personal viewpoint is that he IS the greatest trials rider we have ever seen not just because of the number of GP wins, titles, longevity but the impact he had on the trials world. When Doug won his first couple of titles he raised the bar so much higher than any one could compete with. It took seven seasons for someone (Fuji) to play catch up. Jordi never managed his seven on the trot (3 - Ahvala - 3 - Colomer - 1 - Doug.......), Bou has taken it another step but I don't think we'll have seven years to wait before some young hotshot does the same to Bou, brilliant as he is. Jordi was the best of his time, as was Doug, as was Eddie Lejeune, as was Sammy Miller, as was Vesty as was etc etc etc BUT true greatness comes from something more, I really don't think anyone else SO FAR has come close to Doug. 100 Yep I think it'll happen; 8, I don't see it much as I'd love to. Notwithstanding what I've said, he's still not my favourite ever rider.......That'd be his old man Edited January 22, 2008 by Slapshot 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 I get quite irritated when every one starts talking about who's the best ever because we fundamentally can't come up with a formula to show who is the best ever. This topic raises it head on here every few months and I guess we have the same answers and ideas every few months.....My personal viewpoint is that he IS the greatest trials rider we have ever seen not just because of the number of GP wins, titles, longevity but the impact he had on the trials world. When Doug won his first couple of titles he raised the bar so much higher than any one could compete with. It took seven seasons for someone (Fuji) to play catch up. Jordi never managed his seven on the trot (3 - Ahvala - 3 - Colomer - 1 - Doug.......), Bou has taken it another step but I don't think we'll have seven years to wait before some young hotshot does the same to Bou, brilliant as he is. Jordi was the best of his time, as was Doug, as was Eddie Lejeune, as was Sammy Miller, as was Vesty as was etc etc etc BUT true greatness comes from something more, I really don't think anyone else SO FAR has come close to Doug. 100 Yep I think it'll happen; 8, I don't see it much as I'd love to. Notwithstanding what I've said, he's still not my favourite ever rider.......That'd be his old man Quite the contrary Slapshot, I am intrigued by why people think the way they do regarding who is the best/ greatest etc etc. Its an interesting subject My first experience of watching professional trials riders was seeing Steve Saunders & Eddie Lejeune at a world round in Petersfield. I thought what they were doing was awesome at the the time. Now of course, what Bou does in comparison is just remarkable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapshot 3 Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 (edited) Quite the contrary Slapshot, I am intrigued by why people think the way they do regarding who is the best/ greatest etc etc. Its an interesting subject My first experience of watching professional trials riders was seeing Steve Saunders & Eddie Lejeune at a world round in Petersfield. I thought what they were doing was awesome at the the time. Now of course, what Bou does in comparison is just remarkable. Fair point, from my perspective and my other sport these things can be solved, maybe it's just me looking for a logical solution to everything. In Ice hockey Wayne Gretzky is the greatest player of all time, that is not in question. We get to that stage by using the number of goals scored plus assists to create a league table, Gretzky has more assists alone than the next points scorer. Arguements around that created the +/- scale, you get a + point every time you are on ice when a goal is scored and a minus every time a goal is scored against you, even taking this into account he was miles ahead. My logical mind says there has to be a way to figure it out, wish someone would hurry up and invent it!! Edited January 22, 2008 by Slapshot 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosey Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 Hmmm I've changed my mind on the 'best' I guess on the basis of what they have done for Trials, and people involved in Trials, whilst they made their own living at Trials. I'd say also over a longish time frame too. On this Basis I can use the word ambassador..... No. 1 Mick Andrews No. 2 dunno.... maybe Sammy Miller? John Shuttleworth also had a good song wih Ambassador (Y reg.) in it ..... just don't ask me why Reg...It just happens to be that year Give Lampkin another 20 years then he may earn the tag of ambassador! Still he could win a round or two this year! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted January 23, 2008 Report Share Posted January 23, 2008 Glad someone else is of the same opinion as me over the term ambassador. Doug rides trials for a living and that's it. He may freely sign autographs and be cheerful about it but that hardly qualifies the term ambassador. He holds trials schools (how often?) to help people learn but that is paid work also is it not as well as promoting the make of bike. So ambassador - wrong term I think. I can't get excited about the who is the greatest debate as it is subjective but I think the number of wins achieved by Doug has to be put in perspective against say Tarres. Didn't they ride twice as many rounds in a season during Doug's reign than previous years, if so the number is relative and not a direct comparison to what Tarres achieved. A percentage of wins against starts would be more accurate than just number of wins. I'm certainly not against Doug, he is a remarkable rider, still our best and dominated thoroughly during that time he was winning, the opposition must have been beaten before they fired up their engines. I'd love to see him get the 100th win and even an 8th title but I just can't see it happening. Timing, reaction time, bravery etc. all start to diminish as years advance and even if it is by only the tiniest amount, at that level it makes a big difference. Whilst the keys are flowing I also think the 2-stroke / 4-stroke thing is hugely blown out of proportion. People have swapped between 2 and 4 stroke for years and it was never an issue until the 4RT appeared. Some top enduro riders do it regularly, 4-stroke one event, 2-stroke the next. People blamed a 4-stroke for Doug not regaining his title seemingly forgetting he lost it whilst riding a 2-stroke and forgetting also he won first time out on the 4-stroke (obviously proving the bike was good enough) 2-stroke / 4-stroke has nothing to do with it, riders at that level can ride anything, it was simply time catching up after a marvellous spell at the top, as it does with everyone eventually, and younger riders catching up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil king Posted January 23, 2008 Report Share Posted January 23, 2008 He is going to need time to adjust. I tried riding a 4RT last sunday and found it impossible to ride. Now I'm no Doug Lamkin, but I can ride a little. The point is that the 4RT and the Rev3 take completely different riding styles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikespace Posted October 2, 2008 Report Share Posted October 2, 2008 Im cool with that bikespace.Charity sound's like a good place for the loser's money to go. Agreed I believe the time has come. I'd love to have lost. My tenner will be going in too though! My local charity is Hospice of the Good Shepherd I'm a totally unreligious bloke so the name would normally put me off, but this is our works charity and not religion based - brilliant work they do though. If I put this in through work your money is doubled, everyone's happy - except perhaps Dougie. Next year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilc0 Posted October 3, 2008 Report Share Posted October 3, 2008 I believe the time has come. I'd love to have lost.My tenner will be going in too though! My local charity is Hospice of the Good Shepherd I'm a totally unreligious bloke so the name would normally put me off, but this is our works charity and not religion based - brilliant work they do though. If I put this in through work your money is doubled, everyone's happy - except perhaps Dougie. Next year? Well done Bikespace.There's a marie curie care place up the road from me,i'll pop in and stick my tenner in the pot when im passing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cota kid Posted October 3, 2008 Report Share Posted October 3, 2008 (edited) Be interested to hear what happens with Doug as his contract is up for renewal with Beta and the advertising for Sheffield is 'Doug's last stand?' I personally think he has got at least another two seasons, if not more still left in him. He's still the best British rider, by a long way and still is a huge talent. Still the best trials rider in the history of the sport, without question.... If you add up all the world rounds wins of the five riders currently above Doug in the world rankings and they are still behind Doug's 99 wins. Edited October 3, 2008 by Cota Kid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveo Posted October 4, 2008 Report Share Posted October 4, 2008 Dougs time has past, he has nothing more to prove. Two years of sliding further off the pace, I doubt it. He would do better doing a Tarres and contribute outside the tapes. His skill levels have been well and truely exceeded by the new younger crop of stars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copemech Posted October 4, 2008 Report Share Posted October 4, 2008 Someone needs to be there, if nothing else but to give the younger riders something to shoot for! Currently, there are only two at the top, Fajardo may be showing promise? Can the others hang in there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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