Importer Direct

[ishy]

With the Euro doing a number against the US $ and sales of trials bikes down, is it time for a rethink of how they are sold?.

In our local club only, one 08 model has been sighted, and nearing the end of February this is definitely way down on prior years,I read this is the case in other parts of the world too.

Instead of many making nothing, wouldn't it be better for a few, to at least make enough profit to keep afloat and still be able to lower cost to the punter?.

My thoughts are! Would it be better for the importer to sell to the public direct cutting out the dealer margin, they could still sell the bike through a dealer and pay a flat commission for bikes that needed to be shipped and set up for the customer, but many times they could also be shipped right to the customers door.

Many people go into a car lot with no $ and come out with a new car a few hours later, would a $500 down and x amount per month done direct through the importer entice more to buy?.

In the US we have many so called dealers who sell two or three trials bikes a year out of their garage, and offering financing to the customer isn't an option, so in order to buy a new machine from one of the small dealers, the customer has to come up with a large amount in cash, the truth is financing may not be an ideal way to buy anything, but it is how most high cost items are sold in today's world.

To be competitive with other back yard dealers, I will often sell the bikes close to cost, I'm not in it to make a living just trying to promote the sport I love, but this also makes it harder for anyone to make it viable and probably Why you don't see many trials bikes for sale in the large motorcycle dealerships? stocking a $7000 to $9000 specialty machine on the off chance a punter will buy it doesn't make a lot of sense to me, and when you consider how small the profit margin is I think it doesn't make a lot of sense to the big motorcycle dealer ether.

I think it is time the US importers got together and came up with a way to sell to the public direct, offer financing, which I do believe can be done through a company who will take on the contract and pay the importer the cost of the item sold plus a commission for getting the contract.

As a back yard dealer, I don't want to take the chance and stock a bike that costs $7000 + and at best will make a couple of hundred profit, but is more likely to loose a couple of hundred.

I would rather see the US importers making a bit more money and offering other options to make it easier for the customer to get on a new bike, than see less bikes sold and no one make any profit.

I could be way off, but I don't see many knocking on my front door with check in hand

what do you think would improve sales in a slow economy?

Edited February 21, 2008 by Ishy

[outlaw dave]

You're right about one thing Ishy - You're way off base - The whole Motorcycle market is in the toilet.

[thatchman]

from what i heard down the grape vine its not bike sales but stock thats the problem. none of the factories seem able to supply at the mo. this seems to be the case with clothing aswell. Gas Gas have thousands in the factory at the mo awaiting front ends!!! there were obviously more foucused on advertising the new model way back in aug 07 then making them.

[ishy]

You think it's more supply not being able to meet demand, than too many trying to get what little there is of the same pie?

[trialsuk]

The reason GasGas can't supply quick enough is a shortage of forks from marzocchi which has been caused by their commitment to supply the needs of BMW's new models. This has had the effect of pushing the smaller customers (gasgas etc) down the pecking order. We have been waiting for 250's to come in for a while and hope that the fork manufacturers can cope with the demands so we can all get our bikes asap.

[baldilocks]

With the Euro doing a number against the US $ and sales of trials bikes down, is it time for a rethink of how they are sold?.

In our local club only, one 08 model has been sighted, and nearing the end of February this is definitely way down on prior years,I read this is the case in other parts of the world too.

Instead of many making nothing, wouldn't it be better for a few, to at least make enough profit to keep afloat and still be able to lower cost to the punter?.

My thoughts are! Would it be better for the importer to sell to the public direct cutting out the dealer margin, they could still sell the bike through a dealer and pay a flat commission for bikes that needed to be shipped and set up for the customer, but many times they could also be shipped right to the customers door.

Many people go into a car lot with no $ and come out with a new car a few hours later, would a $500 down and x amount per month done direct through the importer entice more to buy?.

In the US we have many so called dealers who sell two or three trials bikes a year out of their garage, and offering financing to the customer isn't an option, so in order to buy a new machine from one of the small dealers, the customer has to come up with a large amount in cash, the truth is financing may not be an ideal way to buy anything, but it is how most high cost items are sold in today's world.

To be competitive with other back yard dealers, I will often sell the bikes close to cost, I'm not in it to make a living just trying to promote the sport I love, but this also makes it harder for anyone to make it viable and probably Why you don't see many trials bikes for sale in the large motorcycle dealerships? stocking a $7000 to $9000 specialty machine on the off chance a punter will buy it doesn't make a lot of sense to me, and when you consider how small the profit margin is I think it doesn't make a lot of sense to the big motorcycle dealer ether.

I think it is time the US importers got together and came up with a way to sell to the public direct, offer financing, which I do believe can be done through a company who will take on the contract and pay the importer the cost of the item sold plus a commission for getting the contract.

As a back yard dealer, I don't want to take the chance and stock a bike that costs $7000 + and at best will make a couple of hundred profit, but is more likely to loose a couple of hundred.

I would rather see the US importers making a bit more money and offering other options to make it easier for the customer to get on a new bike, than see less bikes sold and no one make any profit.

I could be way off, but I don't see many knocking on my front door with check in hand

what do you think would improve sales in a slow economy?

In europe I dont understand why we have importers any more.

Its the european free trade area under the Treaty of Rome (wont bore you with the details) so there is no charge made by a country to pass goods across a border within the European area. The idea is you pay tax where you buy the product but you can buy things tax exempt or duty free on the understanding that above a certain price you need to pay tax in your home country.

So how can somebody import from a country within the EU if its all one trade area ? Clothing and motorcycles need some people removed from the supply chain to make the prices paid more reasonable.

this all sounds great but from a different perspective we need the importers for back up when things go wrong and to support riders.

[jmck]

In the US we have many so called dealers who sell two or three trials bikes a year out of their garage, and offering financing to the customer isn't an option, so in order to buy a new machine from one of the small dealers, the customer has to come up with a large amount in cash, the truth is financing may not be an ideal way to buy anything, but it is how most high cost items are sold in today's world.

To be competitive with other back yard dealers, I will often sell the bikes close to cost, I'm not in it to make a living just trying to promote the sport I love, but this also makes it harder for anyone to make it viable and probably Why you don't see many trials bikes for sale in the large motorcycle dealerships?

I am one of the "back yard dealers" that you are refering to, and I am attempting to (eventually) make a living at doing this. I am starting small, trying to pay cash for everything, and hoping to build my business to possibly one day be self-supporting. I have a LOT of money invested in tools, shop equipment, and parts to better service my customers. By selling bikes at near cost you are not "trying to promote the sport you love", you are actually hurting it by doing so.

As you know, there is very little profit margin in these bikes to start with, and by selling at near cost, you are not only hurting yourself, but you are hurting me, other legitimate dealers, the importers, customers, and the sport of trials.

In my opinion, to promote the sport of trials, the small legitimate dealers need to work together. We are the ones that have the investment in the business to try and make it work...we are the ones that support our customers with parts in stock, be able to handle warranty claims and service the bikes when necessary. Bikes and parts should sell at close to MSRP so we can sustain our businesses to support our customers. You can come to my shop and actually see and ride new bikes most of the year. I try to keep at least one new bike in stock at all times. This year, I plan on having parts and accessories for sale at local events as well as a demo bike for people to try.

"As a back yard dealer, I don't want to take the chance and stock a bike that costs $7000 + and at best will make a couple of hundred profit, but is more likely to loose a couple of hundred." My answer to that is maybe you shouldn't be a dealer. I think the importers should tighten their requirements of what it takes to become a dealer. If you are not willing to make the commitment to stock parts and be able to service the customers properly then don't call yourself a "dealer". You would be much better off just buying a bike from a real dealer and actually show support for the sport you love so much.

The mainstream motorcycle industry learned years ago that to survive they had to band together and they formed dealer associations, etc. in the attempt to get all the dealers to work together and try to maintain a price structure. It wasn't the complete answer but it sure helped. The importers stepped up their requirements and demanded that the dealers stocked parts and bikes, had training for the mechanics, bought the necessary special tools, etc. The guys that didn't want to make to make the necessary committment did something else. Eventually most of the non-legit dealers got tired and went away. When was the last time you saw a Honda shop operating out of someones back yard?

Now, I know that the trials industry and dealers will never have the sales volume of even the smallest Honda dealer, but we can learn from their past mistakes. Trials needs dealers that will step up and make the committment to stock bikes, have parts on hand and be willing to service the customer. In the long run, getting a franchise to sell a couple of bikes to your mates at cost just hurts the sport. Eventually it will cause the legititmate dealers to go out of business which hurts everyone, including the sport of trials.

[clarkp]

I'm a big believer in the idea of a regional rep for new bike sales. I don't like the idea of buying a 'drop-shipped' bike directly from the importer. Your regional rep can / will help with bike fit, parts at the events, lube, tools, event-based service, etc. All good stuff. This also helps the regional rep develop a rapport with individuals who will, when the time comes for a new bike, give the rep his/her business.

Now, notice I've said, 'regional rep'. What I don't think is a good idea is what we have now - lots of one-sy, two-sy 'dealers' all over the place, selling two or three different brands of bikes. Trade-in sales are a different conversation, we're focusing on new bike sales.

I think each brand should have one 'regional' power dealer in dedicated geographic territories or regions. Just like when we have regional (multi-state) series competition events, likewise, there should be regional dealers each supporting one brand.

These regional dealers would be people (many already carrying one or more lines of bikes) that are already supporting lots of localized events. So if you wanted a new trials bike, you'd contact the brand dealer in your area and make a date for either meeting them somewhere for a dedicated sale, or plan to meet them at the next event they'll be attending to pick up your new scoot.

This has lots of advantages for the importers. They still have local guys supporting their local trials scene, but only selling one brand. This would have the effect of stabilizing prices (good for the importers) and stabilizing the brand image (the importer hand selects the dealer that supports the company line 100% - no crappy dealers - no dealer / individual carping about the brand behind the importer's back).

The importers know which geographic areas are trials 'hot' spots and they already know potential 'power' dealers in each area.

"So let it be written... so let it be done"

-cp

[ishy]

I don't think total bikes sales in the US would come close to half of what is sold in the UK.

When you consider the size of the country and how many bikes are sold in a given area, there is no way for a person to make a living at it.

The ones selling the bikes for the most part just enthusiasts trying to promote the sport, the down side is it adds to the price of the machine.

In today's world with the internet it is lot easier to order parts, bike, clothing online and have them delivered to your door, for the majority in the US the local trials dealer isn't just a mile or two down the road, and the only option is to get stuff online

Giving the importer a greater margin by cutting out a middle man will give them more flexibility in price and more chance of them soaking up some of the exchange rate.

[munch]

all very nice, but where do the part exchanges go?

[ishy]

JMck, Clarkp, you make good points, I'm not cotesting how it should be in the perfect world, I'm stateing what the truth realy is. Could you tell me how many dealers in the whole country all brands incl sell more than twenty bikes per year, 1? 2? 3?

And what amount per year would you consider making a living at it?

[ishy]

all very nice, but where do the part exchanges go?

You'll figure that out when there is no room left in't back of the shop Munch

[jmck]

I'm not sure that any trials dealer can sell 20 or so bikes a year, more power to them if they can. I would love to!!!

I do a lot of different things to try and make my business support itself, and hopefully to eventually show a profit. Like most of us, I have a real job I work at also. I put in a lot late nights in the shop and pretty much love every minute of it. I cater to the vintage and trials crowd mainly, because that is where my heart is. I build/repair spoked wheels, do vintage bike restorations, and support a few old roadracers. I am getting heavily into suspension setup and repair also. We really enjoy going to trials events and helping folks. We plan on hosting an event here this summer also.

It is really important for me to make a profit on most everything I do. That is how I can stay in business. Oh, I believe in giving guys discounts...my customers get a discount on parts and service. I do not inflate prices on anything; I try to get MSRP. Most people understand that...if you sell everything at cost you won't be around very long. The internet is a great thing, and you can buy most anything you want that way, and usually at a reduced cost. It has changed the business model for a lot of businesses. However, there are still people that like to touch and feel things before they buy them, and they like to bring their bike to someone who can help them jet the carb, setup the suspension for their body weight and riding style, etc.

I like the idea of the old "Mom and Pop" style of dealer. I don't know what it is like where you live, but around here, you go to the local Mega-Mart Honda-Suzuki-Kawasaki-Yamaha-KTM-Triumph-Victory-BMW-Ducati shop and you can buy all the clothing, helmets, oil, etc. but you can't even get a clutch-cover gasket for anything without having to order it.

Heaven forbid trying to get anything non-chrome for a Harley. Sure you can get all the steak knives, official licensed Harley wear from boots to boxer shorts, even "hog-skins" if you're into that, but go to the parts counter and ask for a rocker arm for a 77 Shovel and they look at you like you got three eyes.

Long-winded way of trying to make a point I know, but I think trials needs dealers that have (normal-wear) parts in stock, riders can get their bikes repaired when needed, and they can sit on and test-ride a new bike. I try to keep a used one or two in stock also. Anytime you are in the area, give me a call and stop by. The coffee is hot and you all are always welcome.

[Andy]

I'm not sure that any trials dealer can sell 20 or so bikes a year, more power to them if they can. I would love to!!!

I do a lot of different things to try and make my business support itself, and hopefully to eventually show a profit. Like most of us, I have a real job I work at also. I put in a lot late nights in the shop and pretty much love every minute of it. I cater to the vintage and trials crowd mainly, because that is where my heart is. I build/repair spoked wheels, do vintage bike restorations, and support a few old roadracers. I am getting heavily into suspension setup and repair also. We really enjoy going to trials events and helping folks. We plan on hosting an event here this summer also.

It is really important for me to make a profit on most everything I do. That is how I can stay in business. Oh, I believe in giving guys discounts...my customers get a discount on parts and service. I do not inflate prices on anything; I try to get MSRP. Most people understand that...if you sell everything at cost you won't be around very long. The internet is a great thing, and you can buy most anything you want that way, and usually at a reduced cost. It has changed the business model for a lot of businesses. However, there are still people that like to touch and feel things before they buy them, and they like to bring their bike to someone who can help them jet the carb, setup the suspension for their body weight and riding style, etc.

I like the idea of the old "Mom and Pop" style of dealer. I don't know what it is like where you live, but around here, you go to the local Mega-Mart Honda-Suzuki-Kawasaki-Yamaha-KTM-Triumph-Victory-BMW-Ducati shop and you can buy all the clothing, helmets, oil, etc. but you can't even get a clutch-cover gasket for anything without having to order it.

Heaven forbid trying to get anything non-chrome for a Harley. Sure you can get all the steak knives, official licensed Harley wear from boots to boxer shorts, even "hog-skins" if you're into that, but go to the parts counter and ask for a rocker arm for a 77 Shovel and they look at you like you got three eyes.

Long-winded way of trying to make a point I know, but I think trials needs dealers that have (normal-wear) parts in stock, riders can get their bikes repaired when needed, and they can sit on and test-ride a new bike. I try to keep a used one or two in stock also. Anytime you are in the area, give me a call and stop by. The coffee is hot and you all are always welcome.

Technically, this is a commercial advertisement for your business which would normally fall foul of the rules of these forums, but you explain things so well I could not possibly pick fault with what you say. Well explained, honest and I doubt you're alone...

[ishy]

I think it would be in the importers interest to floor bikes in areas where they have the best sales, and give those dealers a fair commission on any sale.

My point is the total new bikes sales for the US isn't as many has people think, importers will stop importing if it looses money, they maybe able to ride out one or two lean years but after a while you have to cut losses. I think if the trials market in the US doesn't pick up in the next year or two you will see importers getting out of the business. With the exchange rate and the US economy both ****, do you think it's a smart move to streamline a business that depends on the customers having a fair chunk of spare cash to spend on their hobby, or ride it out and hope for the best?.