jmck Posted February 22, 2008 Report Share Posted February 22, 2008 Andy, Thanks for the comments, and I apologize for getting a little sideways with the rules. It certaintly wasn't my intention and I will try to be more careful in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil king Posted February 22, 2008 Report Share Posted February 22, 2008 While large multi-brand motorcycle shops have their short comings, at least they have a large quantity of bikes on the show room floor. I think it would be good for trials if somehow these large dealers were enticed into carrying a trials brand or two. At least they would get some exposure to the public. Hell, I'll go as far as say that Honda should make the large dealers put a Montesa on the floor. Maybe they could sell a few. I'm not against "mom and pops" but they don't have any marketing power. It's hard to increase your market base when hardly anybody knows what your talking about, the masses here in the states have never heard of Trials! Put a trials bike in the Harley Boutique, at least someone will see it and wonder"What the hell is that!". That is what trials needs here in the US, EXPOSURE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copemech Posted February 22, 2008 Report Share Posted February 22, 2008 Technically, this is a commercial advertisement for your business which would normally fall foul of the rules of these forums, but you explain things so well I could not possibly pick fault with what you say. Well explained, honest and I doubt you're alone... I am certainly glad that someone appreciates things like that. It is not a bad thing! Who you are, what you are and what you do! We are somewhat lucky on this forum to have as much participation as we do from many knowledgable folk with many years of experience and I hate to discourage that as many of these contacts are vital in our small community. Maybe that is even another thing to look at as far as supporting the site, where only supporters can do that, not having to be a major headline advertiser, I do not know, but as with everything else tying into this thread, it can make a difference that we need to support and not neccessarily suppress. So Ishytrembling****es can get you a bike in your area, set it up for you, fit accessories, That is good to know if you are a newbie! Good to know if you are a experienced rider not mechanically inclined! The local guys make a difference! You think individual dealers are getting rich? Doubt it, but it may help the sport. And if in fact I am knowledgable enough to handle my own bike setup and just want or even prefer that the box be dropped at my door, therin lies the difference. No, under the current circumstances I cannot see anyone stocking bikes just to see if one sells, taking one as a demo bike and riding it is another deal and a dealers option. AND you may loose money doing it! But the bottom line is that the new bikes just cost too much, the depreciation too much and the market too small for your average 250cc lightweight trials bike to cost as much as a 650cc Japanese high tech roadburner it seems, just for something to throw at the rocks and mud! Therin lies a big problem. But if you loose the grassroots support from Ishytrembling****es, who will take his place at your local events? Cal your regional guy on Monday to see! M2C! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulthistle Posted February 22, 2008 Report Share Posted February 22, 2008 Correct a mundo Neil King! Kudo's to you JMcK as well! The basic premise of any sale is perceived need. You Don't sell steak, you sell the sizzle! A picture of raw steak will attract few. But the image of a slab of meat perfectly grilled with side items will make the register ring. So what should you do? Buts on seats. If you put people on the bike with solid basic instruction and an idea what to do, you will be able to sell them. Show how trials is a sport the whole family can do and enjoy. Discounted product will only satisfy the current enthusiast. It will not promote the sport or keep a dealer or importer in business. To sustain a healthy market you must have a steady flow of new riders. There must be events, rides, practice areas national events. Show rooms with raw steak and images of sizzle to spark interest. I think a large semi with Gas Gas, Beta, Sherco or whatever, carrying a fleet of demo's and a stock of new at selected events, manned with local dealer(s) to sell to the customers from their area. Room for a huge stock of parts, service area, hospitality area. You create excitement, you don't discount it and hope it happens. Hope won't get you cra..., but work and some planning will make it happen. Selling product is a business, But without a need......... NO SALE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted February 22, 2008 Report Share Posted February 22, 2008 (edited) This is surely the reason why there are no Montesas in the states this year? If there was a big demand or any real demand then someone would want to import them. How this applies to the montesa "situation" in the UK I'm not sure. A large semi costs alot af money (bike sales) aren't you into the chicken and egg then? Edited February 22, 2008 by Nigel Dabster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sideup Posted February 22, 2008 Report Share Posted February 22, 2008 Do the math: $450 full mark-up retail profit on a trial bike x 20 per year = $9000 Never mind the labor cost to set the bike up properly. And how many dealers can get full retail? Not enough profit for a Honda dealer to set the bike up "for the masses beating down their door" & mess with stocking parts and flooring bikes. Don't even consider the liability insurance a big bike dealer pays. Not enough profit for a full time "trials" dealer to make poverty level living, unless they live in a tent and eat pork and beans out of a can. Importers can invest their money in the money market and come out way ahead. In the U.S. Trials dealers have always done it for the love of the sport, certainly not to make a living on. Without the Ishy types to support the sport, trials in the U.S. would have faded away long ago. I agree with Ishy , if the importers doubled their profit margin it might, just might, be worth their time. Semi truck cost $180,000 / $9000 per year, that's a 20 year pay back. Not going to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d. sileo Posted February 22, 2008 Report Share Posted February 22, 2008 (edited) I admire Ishy for being candid and Agree with him however, It has no place here on this forum and directly effects the rest of us who have a large investment in the business as well........I call foul.....D Edited February 22, 2008 by D. Sileo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjax Posted February 22, 2008 Report Share Posted February 22, 2008 I just had to throw in my two cents worth. I am not a bike dealer, but a lifelong trials, off road, and road rider. Also self employed my entire life as a nursery stock broker. Many nursery stock growers (at wholesale) are mom and pop type organizations, very similar to the "backyard garage dealer" of trials bikes and such. As I see it, the importer can choose to create an environment of "competitive chaos". Or to build an organized network with regional definitions and strict minimum requirements. The organized regional rep/dealer plan (at least in theory) should suppport better margins and thereby succuss for the rep/dealer. If this were done with "broker protected" online sales as well, it might work in today's changing market (online sales of everything) . On line sales could be credited to each rep/dealer. Online sales of bikes, parts and accessories could offer options that may include direct customer shipping. These online sales would include the rep/dealer in some manner. The key here is a structure that uses discipline and comittment by the importer as well as the rep/dealer. In my business we have large sized growers who have numerous brokers selling for them, with little protection of the customers who try to go around my back to the grower. In addition, we have customers that are called upon by more than one broker selling for the same grower (much confusion). On the other hand the small grower usually embraces me as a broker (he cannot afford to promote as I do) and the relationship is mutally beneficial. In the trials community, the small dealer is the norm, but there must be more discipline to create a protected environment for that dealer. Now the tough part, that dealer MUST remain comitted to a level of customer service that represents the manufacturer/importer in proper and business like manner. If taht is done, the money should follow (in the long run) In the past 2 years I have dealt with and know first hand of 3 trials bike and accessory "dealers" who no longer exist (as dealers) and one new one who is off to a great start. Each one worked hard, so why so much turn over? Just my thoughts.... Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ishy Posted February 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2008 I know it's a touchy subject D, and what I'm suggesting to cut out the man like yourself who has a lot of money invested, is going to touch a nerve or two. If the importers are struggling to make a go of it, what chance has the little fish got, and I don't mean making a living, I mean not loosing a few grand each year, if a larger profit margin goes to the importer and they take more of the risk, doesn't a small commission and no risk make more sense to the little guy who is only in the game for fun, hobby, passion whatever. I have had new bikes stood around and if they don't sell by July, chances are the customer will want the next year model or a very good deal on the end of year bike, simple solution to the problem, was don't stock bikes, but then again at times if you had a new bike on the floor you could of sold it. From what I see all the US importers put everything they can, then some more back into the sport, sales and economy at this time are poor they have to make a living, many of us are doing it as enthusiasts and an hobby that is not our primary source of income. I'm not trying to p*** anyone off, and think all have the best interest of trials at heart, I also know your not in it for the money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trialsage Posted February 22, 2008 Report Share Posted February 22, 2008 (edited) Anyone want to buy a trials buisness??--think i will take up flower arranging!!!!!!! Edited February 22, 2008 by trialsage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptradam Posted February 22, 2008 Report Share Posted February 22, 2008 I know that as a consumer I appreciate the opportunity to go to a dealer and do some"tire kicking". I usually buy year old bikes that have been taken as a trade in. I also usually trade in my bike at the same time. I'd rather trade in my old bike and let the dealer sell it. I understand I might make out better finaccially if I sold my bike outright. I'd rather not deal with it though. In my opinion this is the biggest advantage of going thru a dealer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ishy Posted February 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2008 "As a back yard dealer, I don't want to take the chance and stock a bike that costs $7000 + and at best will make a couple of hundred profit, but is more likely to loose a couple of hundred." My answer to that is maybe you shouldn't be a dealer. I think the importers should tighten their requirements of what it takes to become a dealer. I can agree with this, when you look at the dealer location maps and see how many there are for how few bikes sold per year, it isn't hard to see why no one is making any profit, three main dealers east coast, central and west coast, selling all brands stocking a good selection of parts and offering a good mailing and online service may be able to make a go of it, the truth is the rest of us are just p***ing in the wind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Posted February 22, 2008 Report Share Posted February 22, 2008 I admire Ishy for being candid and Agree with him however, It has no place here on this forum and directly effects the rest of us who have a large investment in the business as well........I call foul.....D Empty your PM Box! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmck Posted February 23, 2008 Report Share Posted February 23, 2008 I can agree with this, when you look at the dealer location maps and see how many there are for how few bikes sold per year, it isn't hard to see why no one is making any profit, three main dealers east coast, central and west coast, selling all brands stocking a good selection of parts and offering a good mailing and online service may be able to make a go of it, the truth is the rest of us are just p***ing in the wind. I may be sticking my finger in the fan so to speak, but I believe the importers should accept the bulk of the responsibility for where trials is today. Trials is such a small community, the importers should have had the insight to band together and develop a proper dealer network years ago, requiring the dealers to stock parts, service bikes, etc, etc. just like the mainstream bike industry did, although obviously on a much smaller scale. By allowing everybody and their brother to have a franchise actually hurt the sport rather than promoting it. Easy to say that now, but what can be done to help steer us in the right direction? Not much, given the current overall condition of the economy here in the US. It's not just bikes either, I drive past a large a Toyota dealership every day going to work and they still have new 2007 cars on the lot. Everybody's hurting. If the importers won't help initially, maybe those of us that have a substantial investment in our businesses need to start our own dealer associations and petition the importers to pull franchises from people that aren't serious about trying to make a living in the industry. If the average trials bike rider would support legitimate dealers and avoid the fly-by-night guys to save a hundred bucks or so that would be a step in the right direction also. That probably won't happen though, everybody tries to save a buck here and there to put food on the table. It's the "Wall Mart" syndrome all over again...we wonder why nobody manufactures anything in the US anymore on our way to Wally World to buy Chinese crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulthistle Posted February 23, 2008 Report Share Posted February 23, 2008 (edited) Do the math:$450 full mark-up retail profit on a trial bike x 20 per year = $9000 Never mind the labor cost to set the bike up properly. And how many dealers can get full retail? Not enough profit for a Honda dealer to set the bike up "for the masses beating down their door" & mess with stocking parts and flooring bikes. Don't even consider the liability insurance a big bike dealer pays. Not enough profit for a full time "trials" dealer to make poverty level living, unless they live in a tent and eat pork and beans out of a can. Importers can invest their money in the money market and come out way ahead. In the U.S. Trials dealers have always done it for the love of the sport, certainly not to make a living on. Without the Ishy types to support the sport, trials in the U.S. would have faded away long ago. I agree with Ishy , if the importers doubled their profit margin it might, just might, be worth their time. Semi truck cost $180,000 / $9000 per year, that's a 20 year pay back. Not going to happen. Sale of bike $450 finance income 2% of sale $140 Acc and apparel purchased with bike $320 avg margin 30% $96 spare rear fender, levers and air filter $165 30% $49.50 Potential profit from trade 20% of 3800. $720 Finance income from used sale $76 Acc and apparel $180 30% margin $54 Potential profit from one new unit sale = $1585.5 x 20 =31,710.00 Without "nailing" anyone with extended wty or insurance. Although theft ins would be recomended. As a dealer you have to provide service for your customer, that doesn't always mean repair. It means helping your customer get what they want and be able to enjoy it. Their time is more important than yours, you save them time and hassle by fufilling their needs and giving them more time to enjoy their hobby. Edited February 23, 2008 by paul_thistle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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