trialsage Posted February 23, 2008 Report Share Posted February 23, 2008 Zippy!--this is EXACTLY what we mean-- there are very few serious dealers willing to spend money to actually stock parts--if you dont have the money-- and REALLY want to do it, then either borrow it or just forget it-- but just do it profesionally and seriously! No one goes to the mall to buy a pair of jeans and has to come back a week later to pick them up because the retailer didnt want to spend any money to stock them!-- the retailer is obligeted to have them, because if he dosnt , then someone else will!---- we have UPS and Fed Ex pick up every day-- and ship lot of parts every day-- thats why we have so many $$$$$ of stock-- not saying we dont make mistakes, but we consider ourselves a serious dealer. Anyone could and can do it ---if they are serious!--simple as that! Then, you dont have to drive to the dealer to pick up the parts he had to order because he didnt have them in stock and then took a week to get -- and you wont have to fix the bike at the trial! Just support the guys who are trying to do this properly--why buy from the importer?-- your giving the dealers a death sentence! So-- here we are back to square one-- do we need dealers??-- if importers are selling direct then we already dont i guess? But can that importer serve the whole country - help the guy whose bike is broken at a local event - I think not-- so -- maybe the key distributor serving all the wanna be dealers is the fix ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin belair Posted February 24, 2008 Report Share Posted February 24, 2008 (edited) Depending on who you listen to, that is why we have no distributor now. American Honda apparently pushed (or is pushing) just such a move, which left the traditional US distribution path without any meaningful commitment, for the long term. Given such a questionable future, the position of "US Distributor" was too risky an investment. Thus, we have none.For folks not already aware of trials, and the Montesa history, there would be no interest in buying some "off the wall" brand, as Montesa, even in a Honda dealership. It would seem logical that the Montesa name would be stripped, and you would be buying Honda RTL models, just as they do in Japan. But, the US dealers (of all Japanese brands) have already experienced the dismal failure (back in the 70's) of trying to sell trials bikes in the American market. And, with only one model, Honda seems the most ill equiped to try such a move. Filling Yamaha dealerships with all the variations of the Scorpa lineup would be a much better place to start, if you were trying to find a market outside of the already existing trials folks. One model of trials bike, sitting in a Honda dealership, just doesn't appear to be a very wise move, on Honda's part. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out. Darrell, your first paragraph is 100% non-sense. The is not an ounce of fact in it. The speculations about Montesa and Honda in paragraph two are products of your or someone elses fertile imagination. Sorry. Here are the facts. The Montesa situation in the US is being re-evaluated at the moment. THAT IS ALL. Nothing has been decided. There are no sinister plots or boogie men hiding in the shadows. It is human nature to find RUMOR more interesting than truth. What is true are your comments about the failure of putting Japanese trials bikes into US dealerships in the 70's. The problem there was that they made too many bikes. Many of the Japanese companies made 10,000 units !!! These Spainish companies that dominated the US market at the time were only selling a few thousand bikes total at the time. Yamaha tried it again in the mid-80's with the TY mono and made each dealer take 2 bikes. The dealers had no idea what to do with them and they sat for a while and finally were sold at cost just to get them off the floor. Just so you know my info comes from people who were employees of Honda and Yamaha at the time. On another subject I would like to thank Ishy for raising the subject and begining a dialog and Andy for allowing it to continue. I have read all the comments with interest and some make vaild point while others are just dreaming. As an importer I always insited that my dealers sell at MSRP. If anyone discounted too much, they would get a call from me. You can ask any of my dealers. I also protected my dealers territories. If someone got an inquiry out of area they would quote retail and send them to their nearest dealer. So, mister Barcota, please don't tar us with that brush. There are huge differences in business practices among the Importers. But, this is the real world and importers are free to run their business as they please. The main problem here is the weak US Dollar. For some, (the quality bikes) this has destroyed their margin. To try and keep a reasonable margin would price the bike out of reach and sales would end. Try and keep the price competitive and you make ZERO. It is as simple as that. Others have such a large margin built in that they can absorb more of the losses from to the poor exchange rate. This is a factor of build cost. Not all bikes cost the same to build, but they sell for near the same. If you look at the business/history of trials you will see that there are ups and downs. I feel that the important thing is to keep riding and keep the sport that we all love going. The US Dollar will come back some day....... maybe. Martin Edited February 24, 2008 by Martin Belair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ishy Posted February 24, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2008 (edited) Pointing fingers at who is and who is not doing what, doesn't solve the problem. I think in a good year maybe 500 new trials bike sales in the US, this isn't a good year, and I would think 350 sales is closer to the truth. A couple of years ago there were 5 US importers, last year there were 4, this year there are 3 anyone else notice the trend ? The importers will do just what they think is best for them, none have called me and given me a B*****ksing for starting all this yet Edited February 24, 2008 by Ishy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swooshdave Posted February 24, 2008 Report Share Posted February 24, 2008 Pointing fingers at who is and who is not doing what, doesn't solve the problem.I think in a good year maybe 500 new trials bike sales in the US, this isn't a good year, and I would think 350 sales is closer to the truth. A couple of years ago there were 5 US importers, last year there were 4, this year there are 3 anyone else notice the trend ? The importers will do just what they think is best for them, none have called me and given me a B*****ksing for starting all this yet Perhaps it can get back up to 4 if there is an Xispa importer... <runs and hides...> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copemech Posted February 24, 2008 Report Share Posted February 24, 2008 It is obvious that niether importer nor dealers can afford to sit on inventory that is either tying up funds or costing them money! Trying to maintain margins on old stock is an act of futility! Yet at the same time, I can see where the "buddy deal" , pushing a crate out of the warehouse for someone who imports them is at least helping some importer get a bike outof his warehouse and into someones hands who wants it! That dealer is the one who suffered! Now if I myself, mr nobody, called up mr motodiksalot and said "I want you to broker a bike deal and have the new model SHAKESALOT delivered to my door in the factory box because I do not want yours or anyone elses grubby hands toutching the friggin thing before I get to it and the check is on the way at $150 over your cost for the trouble of making a call! The money will be in your bank long before you are invoiced for the bike so shut up and dance stupid! I wish I could be on the dealer end of this about 20 times a year just to flip some bucks! You got a warranty problem, call the importer! Long distance relationships are good in that way! Remember that ******* you sold a new bike to and had to listen to his whining bullshiiiite for the next six months! All for a $500 profit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulthistle Posted February 24, 2008 Report Share Posted February 24, 2008 I think I sold a bike to copemech! That may be him on the phone now! AGAIN! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgshannon Posted February 24, 2008 Report Share Posted February 24, 2008 Darrell, your first paragraph is 100% non-sense. The is not an ounce of fact in it. The speculations about Montesa and Honda in paragraph two are products of your or someone elses fertile imagination. Sorry.Martin Hey Martin, Good to hear from you. In hindsight, I should have been more clear on the "Depending on who you listen to..." portion of my story. The "speculations about Montesa and Honda in paragraph two" are not my own, so "someone elses fertile imagination" must be a work! While I am not privy to the deepest inner-circle, you know that I am also not completely disconnected. Perhaps more bitter discontent, than fertile imagination, but this was not something that was related to me only once, or by only one source, so it seemed to have it's roots in something other than rumor. The second half of my story (regarding trials bikes in the 70's) was really there to draw some question as to the validity of the first part! It just didn't seem to make sense that American Honda would try such a thing. I am glad you contributed your first hand insight, as my relationship with you, over the years, allows me to take you at your word, on the current situation. - Darrell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin belair Posted February 24, 2008 Report Share Posted February 24, 2008 Hi Darrell, sorry to come down so hard on you. It is not your fault. The situation lends itself to speculation. I have always had a huge dislike for the rumor mill. It seems so pointless. I get asked about Montesa all the time. I don't know what will happen. They will let us know when they decide. Right now it makes little business sense. If the USD had stayed strong we would not be in this situation. Either way, I hope to see you at the World Round at TTC. Come by the Montesa pits and we will have a beer. Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveo Posted February 25, 2008 Report Share Posted February 25, 2008 After reading right though this thread, it seems your problems of backyard dealers and sweetheart deals is a real headache. We here in Australia have some very solid importers who are the backbone of our Trials scene in Australia. Some have distributorships in states throughout the country, as like the USA we are a vast area. The ebb and flow of new sales and the ability to sell second hand bikes either privately or trade up through one of our dealers works well, and the service provided by pretty well all the marques is something I think we take for granted after reading through this.We are certainly, population wise around 21 million, tiny, compared to you guys, but 160 to 180 new bikes a year seams OK. Especially when you read that 350 units for your vast population shows to me the Dealer network we enjoy is a sound footing to our Trials community over here. The Difference here is each dealer is the importer so maybe the US Importer, as suggested should be the one that needs a clip in the ear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fracy Posted February 25, 2008 Report Share Posted February 25, 2008 Martin: Just tryed to send you a very long winded PM and found out your mailbox is full! Can you maybe send me your email, would be nice to drop you a line! Take care! Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin belair Posted February 25, 2008 Report Share Posted February 25, 2008 Steve, you can reach me at: martin@usmontesa.com Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
americanbeta Posted February 25, 2008 Report Share Posted February 25, 2008 I will try not to drag this all out, but here it goes. First of all, Hi Martin, you are a class act! I am wanting to come back to trials! I have been envolved in MX and off road for the past 20 years. I would like to compete again as well as possibly be involved more in this wonderful sport. This is no new problem here. These "garage" dealers have no or very little overhead, plus they have another real job to pay their regular bills. Should they go away? No. Many of these garage dealers are the ones that also are going to all of the events promoting the product. Should a garage dealer pay the same cost for a new bike as a dealership? No. If they only sell one or two bikes per year, they should pay a larger amount. This can be solved by having a sliding scale price structure. This rewards the person who does a better job regardless of where they run out of. To get off the subject, I was looking last night at the National schedule and was amazed that there are only two locations with six rounds in six days! Wow, this is a problem! The sport really does have some serious issues! On a good note, I feel that the sport can possibly grow quite a bit due to some of the Enduro Cross stars having a trials background. Enduro cross is going to boom! It has a trial bike class now and depending on how this is handled, could be the first time in many years that Trials bikes will be on TV! At the risk of getting beat up in here, it seems that the sport is stuck in 1st gear. When I rode nationals in the 80's, I can remember many people complaining about the NATC and others and how they "didn't want the sport to grow". I am not sure at what that meant but it seems to be true today. I see that there are great people like Howard and Laura Galbreath in California still busting their rears to help, but the sport needs more new, fresh, young people involved! I can tell you that this sport is amazing! It cannot go away! If you have 200 dealers across the US selling only 3 bikes each per year, that is 600 bikes! Plus you know they will sell 4-5 used bikes as well at a minimum which will introuce the sport to new people. Our Off Road racer Jordan Brandt even purchased a used trials bike to improve his skills. Yes, the economy is suffering. But trials is so small that it really should not be affected. KTM is selling every $9000.00 EXC they build! There is still many people that want (and can afford) an new bike! OK, so I failed at making this short! Tim Pilg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copemech Posted February 26, 2008 Report Share Posted February 26, 2008 As Martin stated, the exchange rates make things very difficult. Peeps have to have expendable cash for toys! Other factors come into play such as the cost of fuel to events and such. As an example, and as I recall, the avreage 2T cost about $5000 in 2001 when I was looking at new bikes. Same bikes today around $7250, which is an increase of 50%! If you want a 4T add a grand or so! Used bike prices still sag and the cost to upgrade or flip for a new one has doubled as well it seems! All being said, I simply have to be more selective on bikes and trips nowdays because there are limits on expendable cash! As that has certainly not increased over time! I would also venture to guess that many of us are in the same boat! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulthistle Posted February 26, 2008 Report Share Posted February 26, 2008 It is a very large boat! Perhaps a ship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy Posted February 26, 2008 Report Share Posted February 26, 2008 paul_thistle Posted Yesterday, 11:46 PM It is a very large boat! Perhaps a ship. Oh where did me Dingy go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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