Importer Direct

[paulthistle]

Ishy, Thank You! For an awesome thread. And I totally respect someone willing to speak their mind! I appreciate your efforts to keep trials alive. Lord knows it needs all the help it can get.

Kjax, That sound like an incredible event! For all involved and all who participated. A true win win for riders, spectators and sponsors.

I agree some demo bikes at an event like that would be icing on the cake. With a lot of the top off road riders having trials experience, more riders will check them out for cross riding fun.

I have read two examples of exactly what I was blabbing about. People that buy because it looks like fun,a consumer who is a savvy shopper and chooses service over "Best Price".

Prtadam, there is no dought in my mind that most trials bikes ARE used in compettion now. Which is my point, right now you have primarily, core enthusiasts buying bikes. If trials is to make it big in the US it will need to be more accessible to the average non compettive consumer. primarily on the mainstream dealers showroom floor. That way the non enthusiast can take them babys home.

[copemech]

You can be a Dick at times Cope, to tell you the truth I have been throwing good money away trying to help the sport for the past ten years " whore bikes1 easy money" **** you.

Don't get your panties all wadded, Ish! Not pointed at you, but really goes to show the difference as there are many dedicated trials dealers like yourself. These are not only dealers but KEY figures in clubs, events, support, promotion of the sport in their area. But yet the question comes up as per your own proposal.

IF, it was decided to go importer direct from the three(or maybe 4) we have, where would that leave YOU? What would your position then be? And the other key folks as well? Will you carry parts for the brand still, or maybe for all?

Would this be a relief in a way from HAVING to attend EVERY local, regional and national event in your part of the world just to provide support to a few? Will someone do it?

I do not know all the answers! Just throwing up what seems like valid questions!

The possible implications are somewhat overwhelming in a way!

Edited February 28, 2008 by copemech

[hensley]

Good topic great to see trials actually being discussed again

my 2 cents $7000 bikes sure are alarming it has already been mentioned what a good buy they are for a fine piece of machinery unlike most other motorsports you dont have to have a new one to compete. In my area id say most trade on a average of every 3 years some areas may be more often but its about the only motorsport in which you can go 3 yrs without a major overhaul

It was mentioned in 2001 a new bike was 5000 5000-2500(3 year old bike)=2500/3= $833 per yar

7000-3500(3 year old bike)=3500/3=$1166 1166-833= $333 per which is about the same as it cost extra to enter in 6 nationals $600 vrs $300 in 2001 i know parts are up also but not near the cost of fuel to get to the event

Since 2001 gas is 3 times higher all food items at the grocery store 2 times higher and most everything else has close to doubled yet trials went up only 40%

In 2001 we had a robust economy in which the government had a surplus now a record deficit and a sucking economy but that is a matter for a different forum than trials forum

As mentioned already it looks like this crunch could be good for trials. It sure seems rational that a person would tire from buying a $8000 ktm buying some aftemarket parts and scattering its parts across the woods with maybe an emergency room visit or at least missing a day or 2 of work you would think they would convert to trials.

I just cant for the life of me get it through my thick scull why they are not converting to trials maybe the key word is rational I guess we dont ride dirt bikes to be viewed as rational.

[jmck]

If we all lived in a slightly 'more perfect' world, here is my view of how things should be:

IN MY OPINION

[copemech]

A "dealer" should have at least one new bike in stock at all times. Potential customers should be able to come to his place of business, be it a house, garage, basement, shed, building, or outhouse and actually be able to touch and sit on a new trials bike. If this dealer is representing two brands, he should have at least one new bike of each brand at all times.

A "dealer" should be able to maintain, service, and/or rebuild any motorcycle that he sells. No matter how small or large the job is, a dealer should be able to fix anything, from replacing brake pads, crankshafts, wheel bearings, rims, or rebuilding forks, a dealer should be able to handle it, and do it correctly the first time.

Well I figure paragraph one should take care of about half the silly sumbiches cause you can't get Monts and unless somone builds fome forks you can't get Gassers either from what I see posted lately!

Paragraph two should pretty well finish off the rest if you need a crank pressed or a wheel built in house!

[dan williams]

I'm in an awkward position that my trials dealer for 20 years is now the importer and the trip to Vermont, when I buy a bike, is more of a social visit/pilgrimage then just picking up a bike. Does that make me a bad person?

Here's the reason nobody will get rich doing trials. You're not a trials dealer because it's sound business. No investor would look at the business model of a trials dealer and say, " I gotta get me a piece of this action."

You do it for two basic reasons.

1. It lets you get bikes for yourself and your buddies at a discount. (A problem with the trials business model)

2. You love the sport and want to help it grow.

If you're a "dealer" to get a discount you are part of the problem. In a sport where 25 units may move per year in a radius of 200 miles 4 "dealers" buying bikes for their families and friends at dealer cost makes it impossible for a dealer who is in it for the money to remain viable. The other problem that I've seen is the Wal*Mart effect where one dealer is able to sell for less then all the other surrounding dealers effectively driving them out of business. If someone doesn't need the money from the MSRP markup they can very rapidly command the local market. Whether this is good or bad I can't say since a surplus of local dealers in a too small market feels too much like a pyramid scheme to me. To the local dealer who has invested in inventory and infrastructure with an eye towards making trials his primary income it is certainly bad but again it's just business. It is universally bad in one sense and that is where the small local dealer is a primary interface for new riders. Basically breaking down the distributed model of interaction where small "hotbeds" of activity spring up and with sufficient growth start to homogenize over an area. Lacking the impetus of the local dealer this falls mostly on individuals and clubs.

OK so that leaves the dealers whose primary incentive is to "help" the sport whatever that means. If by help you mean grow the sport so that every Tom, Dick and Harry has a trials bike forget it. Trials takes an odd person who is willing to commit vast amounts of time and money to achieve small goals at considerable risk with very little appreciation. That may seem harsh but it has to be recognized. There are variances for some sports as they hit fad status for a brief time (skateboarding) but there seems fairly strong correlation between cost/risk and risk/reward. The other dynamic in sports that is overlooked is that team sport a metaphor for war. Team sports are tribal in nature. The human need to feel part of a group and to assert superiority is an inherent survival instinct. If you've ever said to a co-worker, "Did you see the game? I can't believe WE won." you're indoctrinated. This identification with a group whether it's Red Sox Nation or Manchester united is not a path open to an individualistic sport like trials. There is some brand identification which is all too obvious on this list but nothing that will bring in the kind of numbers of participants or sponsorship imagined by the majority of people involved with the sport.

Motor sports in general suffer from a fundamental problem in the high cost to play and the low return on investment for the providers of the infrastructure. Trials is in one of the worst sports for this as it cost thousands of dollars just to get in the game but a pile of rocks will keep trials riders happy all day. Contrast that to the motor sport that makes the most money. Everyone holds out NASCAR as the shining example of how to make motor sports successful. Every person sitting in the stands is just an ATM machine to the infrastructure that is NASCAR and every one of them, once he's depleted of cash, gets back in his car to drive home in his fantasy world where he's a racer on the freeway. It may seem odd but the sports with the highest average pay seem to inversely correlate to the average income of the fanbase. The cost of a race car may seem to violate the cost/reward rule but NASCAR has an advantage in that everyone needs a car just for basic transportation so the cost of entry for the fan to feel part of the game is virtually nil.

So can trials get bigger. Certainly but not without concerted effort, a clear plan and people willing to sacrifice. Will trials get big...No.

No matter what we do this will always be a small sport populated by enthusiasts. We might have wow factor on our side but that wow factor is so far removed from the workaday world of the average person they will be amazed and then turn back to their American Idol.

So to get back on subject, dealers who are in it to support the sport are getting their feelings hurt by riders who buy from somebody cheaper or on the internet. This means they have an emotional investment feeling that the local trials community owes them something for their effort. If a dealer cuts you a deal on a bike and somebody offers you a better deal on the next one they are just doing what the first dealer did to somebody else. If the value added of going to the same dealer re: on-site service, inventory isn't there then you can't feel insulted if a customer goes somewhere else. They don't owe you anything and the sooner you stop acting as if they do and figure out how to get them back the better it is for all involved. Being upset will just make the customer avoid you more and certainly won't win them back.

Hmmm, that's a lot more then I expected to write.

[tymaster]

I have been reading this topic and have found it very interesting, but I feel the last post by mr Williams says it all.

[zippy]

Dan Williams Posted Today, 03:40 PM

Hmmm, that's a lot more then I expected to write.

possibly it was more than you expected but a good read with many good points.

[city trials]

How many are buying or bought a new bike this year? And where are/did you buy it?

For the record, I bought new in 2007 from my authorized area dealer and paid over importer price. (Ouch) When I can't service my bike myself, my authorized dealer services my bike even a PRO rider would be happy to practice or compete on. (and sometimes does.)

My authorized dealer just sold my 2007 and now I'm in the market for a new one. I'll be buying from a authorized dealer.

Edited March 3, 2008 by City Trials

[jse]

"Here's the reason nobody will get rich doing trials. You're not a trials dealer because it's sound business. No investor would look at the business model of a trials dealer and say, " I gotta get me a piece of this action."

You do it for two basic reasons.

1. It lets you get bikes for yourself and your buddies at a discount. (A problem with the trials business model)

2. You love the sport and want to help it grow."

Dan really makes some valid points to consider. The local dealer really is the frame that supports Trials activity and they usually are not in it for the money. I've seen a couple of the "dealers" that get into the line to just get bikes at a discount, but they don't last, nor should they.

Trials is a very unusual sport and attracts a certain type of rare individual. If you are socially reserved and have a large ego that needs to be fed by the fires of interpersonal competition, Trials will probably not nuture that part of your personality and you'd be much better off involved in one of the "faster" forms of motorcycle competition. Trials is essentially based on cooperation and the theme is not really us against each other, but us against the terrain, and effectively we are banding together to battle a common "enemy". Sure, there is always the underlying aspect of competition, after all, it IS a sport, but the competiton is more internally based, and every rider is always alone in the section. In Trials, we all love puzzles, so we join clubs and volunteer to go out and build a bunch of them for all of us to solve together, usually 10 of them we get three chances at. Trials is a sport that could not exist without volunteers. We don't travel to ride somebody else's track, we build our own tracks, together, every month, and that is part of the cohesive social structure underlying this sport and why, in doing so, a lot of us develop lifelong friends in the process. So, I think that the "love of the sport" is usually why some of us go that little extra measure and become dealers. Sure, there are some "perks" to be had, like getting one's own parts at wholesale (which we also have to pay taxes on) but most of the dealers are, in effect, "volunteers" from what I observe.

Now, what the heck was I trying to get at?

Jon

[paulthistle]

Consumer

Edited March 4, 2008 by paul_thistle

[sirhc]

I've stayed out of this so I wouldn't say something I shouldn't since this now affects me being a new dealer, but I'll just give a few of my opinions.

First, if you eliminated dealers and the public bought their bikes at dealer cost I don't believe that small amount would make it possible for any more people to buy the bikes. To that end if we all sell our bikes at MSRP just as many bikes will be sold and we could cover some of our costs and also make a little more to stock more parts.

Second, to eliminate the people who aren't trying to be real dealers and just getting bikes cheaper for themselves and a couple of buddies the minimum number of bikes a dealer must sell a year should be higher and that number should be adhered to. I have only been a dealer for six monthes and have sold twice the number of new bikes that I am required to in a year even with the slowing economy. It's a pretty small number to me and I would think a established dealer should be doing more.

I also am surprised nobody has mentioned one thing that ISHY said in his opening post that I think would really help and that is financing. It's hard to come up with $7,500. Talking to a local bike shop salesman almost everybody finances their bikes now, even dirt bikes. If we the dealers could some how get financing arranged through our importers or else where I think bike sales would immediately rise. I for example wasn't really in the market for a new dirt bike, but I saw one advertised for a really great price and with my Yamaha card the payments are less than $100 a month, so why not! Just from the phone calls I have got I'm sure I could have sold three more bikes if I offered financing.

For a dealer to have bikes in stock is also something we should do. As of yet I can't afford to buy extra bikes though I hope to in the near future. All the "regular" dealerships don't do that though. They all have flooring plans so they are essentially financing the bikes that are sitting on their floors. I've looked into being a dealer for some of the off brand dirt bikes and they all offer and require a flooring plan through a separate company.

Edited March 6, 2008 by sirhc

[dan williams]

To be honest if you can't get financing through a bank you probably shouldn't be spending $7000 on a toy. Usually I finance through a bank but this time my retirement account sent me a letter telling me I could finance through them. HUH? I read through the fine print and the practical upshot is I have to pay a processing fee for the loan but I essentially pay the money back to myself with interest. That makes it cheaper than the '05 was. Hence the shiny new '08 sitting next to the '05.

I want to make a point that my post was not an attempt to look smart. Unfortunately once I get writing I tend to run on a bit. It pains me greatly to take an objective look at the fragmentation in the trials community and how it affects us all. I can look back on 25 years and a lot of great memories in this sport and would like nothing more then to see the word get out on just what an amazing sport this is but it's not for everybody and that is the simple truth. With the eco movement targeting off road recreation we are losing ground at such a fast pace now that even trials venues are getting hard to find but they are still easier than most sports to run and this should be a time of great expansion for trials. That is what I meant by a concerted effort to expand the sport. Reaching out to other off road communities who are finding they must adapt and adopt new ways to motor should be the growth engine that drives trials forward.

That is not the job of the dealers or the importers. It falls squarely on the shoulders of the promoting clubs. Growth is the engine that drives the sport. More riders buy more motorcycles, who ride more events, who get their buddies to buy motorcycles which raises the market for used bikes allowing for more new bikes to be sold. Here's the secret to it all.

Make it fun.

Don't beat up riders in the lower classes. Don't force mandatory promotion on guys out for fun. Have a class where new adults can learn the sport without feeling they've been sent to the kids table at a holiday supper. If trials grew 10% a year for the past ten years there would be no discussion of importer direct, backyard dealers or currency fluctuation. We'd all be too busy riding, selling and fixing bikes. The biggest avalanche starts with a single snowflake. The snowflake for trials is making it as addicting for everyone as it has been for me. Make it fun for all (or at least as many as possible) who show up and they'll find the money for a bike, and they'll bring their friends and so the avalanche begins.

[paulthistle]

Dan,

You are exactly right.

The point I am trying to make is, If "core riders" such as yourself are what makes up trials now. Then the trials distributers are missing 80% of potential sales from the masses. These customers will never compete, maybe never even spectate at a competition. But they will buy, if exposed. I am a motorcycle, ATV dealer. I sell 500 to 600 units a year. But to sell trials bikes I have to go through a distributer/retailer. If someone in my area calls them, the dist will ship them a bike. If an employee at yamaha buys a bike from the company, it still has to be delivered to them at a dealership. And they have to pay the dealer for prepping it. And then parts. The consumer can just get them direct. Why wouldn't they? It is faster. But the whole point is there is a considerable leap made from dealer/dist to only distributor.

Thats where I think the biggest gains in sales could be made. To the average joe. The one on youtube learning to ride.

Just by having a financial plan means you wouldn't consider most "consumer" financing. But I bet I could get you with a 6 months 000. Nothing down, no payments and no interest for six months. Then you could use you money after that. But promos like that cost the distributor, and are built into the product price.

But i sell 40% on some sort of plan.

[toothandnail]

In returning to trials after a 20+ yr absence , I see a lot of potential for growth ,here's what happened in my little world. I bought a used Gas-Gas ,Feb 07, my brother ,who ownes a MC/ATV repair shop, became a Sherco/Scorpa dealer and has sold 3 new bikes, my son who, "doesen't like to ride MC",(he's ATV all the way), bought 1 after riding mine, I have 3 friends who have bought bikes ,4 more who are planning to buy in the next month or so, also a group of 3 Enduro/HS guys went together and bought 1 ,after 1 of them rode mine at a poker run.I know 4 others who are very interested, I am also looking into buying some adjacent land to allow riders a place to ride,but that don't seem to pay very good,guess I need a Gov. grant

Currently I am the only 1 who competes.

Edited March 6, 2008 by toothandnail