Importer Direct

[paulthistle]

Hmmm.... Thats one rider in six competing. Thats around 17%.

I'd say that was average.

I rode a Hare Scrambles last weekend. During the morning youth race, I rode my beta two laps helping the kids.

There was a lot of interest in the bike. Several who said they were interested in buying one. I think I need a bigger trailer. Semi?

Anyhow, those people are the ones who would make being an importer profitable. NOT the core rider. The core rider knows people and can ferret out the best deal. You only want him as a customer so he can tell interested people they should buy from you.

[thedelaney]

I've read a few posts in this topic and something I saw come up often was dealers having new bikes on the floor ready to sell, and the reply was usually that it wasn't affordable. At our local bike shop (bicycle) they stock at least ten road and mountain bikes costing more than twleve thousand dollars, the most is I think 15,500, and the rest anywhere from 2-6,000. I understand that having a few extra trials bikes on hand is a lot of money to put out in hopes you'll sell them soon, but I'm just curious, how can the bicycle shop afford to have all the bikes I mentioned? I'm sure theres more interest in the sport of bicycling than there is in trials, but the numbers don't really seem to add up to me.

(Just for the record, they weren't all american made)

Edited March 7, 2008 by THEDelaney

[copemech]

I've read a few posts in this topic and something I saw come up often was dealers having new bikes on the floor ready to sell, and the reply was usually that it wasn't affordable. At our local bike shop (bicycle) they stock at least ten road and mountain bikes costing more than twleve thousand dollars, the most is I think 15,500, and the rest anywhere from 2-6,000. I understand that having a few extra trials bikes on hand is a lot of money to put out in hopes you'll sell them soon, but I'm just curious, how can the bicycle shop afford to have all the bikes I mentioned? I'm sure theres more interest in the sport of bicycling than there is in trials, but the numbers don't really seem to add up to me.

(Just for the record, they weren't all american made)

Coming from Texas, I think someone in there must be either very wealthy, very gay or very hard core to want pedal power that costs more than a car! Maybe a combo, woud'nt that be exciting! And maybe the same goes for the salesman! (person)

Edited March 7, 2008 by copemech

[paulthistle]

Copey,

Those are high end bicycles, BUT. There are a lot of them out there. A shop next to me sells a lot of 8K to 12K dollar mountain bikes. I bike very little so my $3500 cannondale mountain bike is low end. I sold my 3K road bike last year.

Oh yeah, the people that buy them are not very likely to compete, and yet they will buy a 15K dollar bike and then buy more titanium to put on it. Those cool $2500 wheels, etc.

But without having them on the floor, they'd be hard to sell.

Edited March 7, 2008 by paul_thistle

[kjax]

Hmmm.... Thats one rider in six competing. Thats around 17%.

I'd say that was average.

I rode a Hare Scrambles last weekend. During the morning youth race, I rode my beta two laps helping the kids.

There was a lot of interest in the bike. Several who said they were interested in buying one. I think I need a bigger trailer. Semi?

Anyhow, those people are the ones who would make being an importer profitable. NOT the core rider. The core rider knows people and can ferret out the best deal. You only want him as a customer so he can tell interested people they should buy from you.

Paul, I always bring my trials bike to the Enduro, HS, and other "go fast" events. Always get a few requests to try it out too. Just think if we could get some dealers to bring trials bikes to more "go fast" events on a regular basis. I am trying to do just that with our own HS and E-Cross events this summer in MI.

Just a question for other trials clubs; How many have a "dirt or trail bike" class in their regular trials format? How many sign up?

Keith

[alan bechard]

Keith, I did it, sent out invitations to the entire MSHS data base. (over 2000 flyers mailed out, thanks to an angel sponsor)

I think we ended up with three riders. (and untold calls asking me when the Quad races started)

I think it needs to be done, and it should be where the growth comes from, but it is a harder sell then it appears on the surface.

It is documented here somewhere on TC, I will go look and verify my numbers a bit, it has been a while.

Paul, do you carry on Trials bikes on the floor?

I know we did here (mid south motoplex) and too the best of my knowledge none ever sold off the floor. (and I believe financing was available for them)

While you certainly know more about the retail end then I, it is a big step (as you know) from "lots of interest" (matter of fact a Sherco was one of the first things you saw when walking into MSM for a while and it generated huge "interest") to someone handing over money for a bike.

Please folks, don't take what I am saying as negative, I really feel that is where it needs to go, that said, I will also say that we have tried various aspects along the way (as have many others) and there is some part of the equation still being missed that somehow, maybe through discussions like this, someone needs to hit on.

Oh, and hey up Copey,,,,,,,,,,,, I found a new spring near the property, might have to trade a little spring water for some cactus juice at the WR.

Interesting discussion by the way

Let me also add, that when I was actively demo'ing and trying to sell bikes, one of the most common questions and stumbling points was "who works on them". As Paul I think it was mentioned, outside the Core riders, who expect to wrench on things themselves, the average consumer wants to hand this $6000 + toy to someone with the name over the door matching what was on the side of the tank and say "fix it" Not sure how you get past that obstacle.

[dan williams]

I understand that having a few extra trials bikes on hand is a lot of money to put out in hopes you'll sell them soon, but I'm just curious, how can the bicycle shop afford to have all the bikes I mentioned?

There are a couple of things to consider here. The markup on the high end bicycles is probably on par or greater then the the markup on a trials bike. Add to that the relative ease of bringing a shipping container full of bicycles into the country vs a motor vehicle with all the emission/limited use restrictions paper work and it's easy to see how an unsold bicycle is something that will probably sell even at a reduced profit at the end of the season. The trials market is a lot smaller and an unsold motorcycle will probably have to be sold at a loss as it's value drops dramatically once the newer model comes out. Bicycle shops also have a lot of low end volume to support the shop. In many cases the high end bicycles are there as loss leaders as the people who buy them will also buy accessory gear at significant markup. There is a critical volume of business where a shop can be self sufficient and unfortunately it's very difficult in a small market like trials to hit that point. Especially when others are coming into the market with dreams of becoming successful dealers and pouring in their own resources only to not make money and then exit. That is what I meant by likening the current situation to a pyramid scheme. I wasn't pointing a finger at anyone but noting that an excess of individual capitol falsely deflating the open market value of trials bikes works for the riders in the short term but is unhealthy as no dealer can move sufficient volume on their own unless they are willing to sell bikes for no profit.

We've all become so focussed on the idea of paying the absolute lowest price that the concept of value added and keeping money in a local economy has become almost irrelevant. Kind of like the addiction to buying cheap Chinese made products to save money and then complaining because you lost your manufacturing job at the widget plant so you have to buy cheap Chinese made products. TANSTAAFL (There ain't no such thing as a free lunch)

Along that line people are missing just what a lot of work it is to be an importer. The up-front costs are huge and there's no guarantee they'll be recovered by the end of the year. Add to that a lot of governmental issues that must be dealt with to bring motor vehicles into the country and all it takes is one off-the-wall rule or legislation to bring it all crashing down. Remember a few years ago when the US in a fit of trade retaliation was going to put a 50% tariff on small European motorcycles in response to European restrictions on South American bananas from American companies. Say WHAT???

Edited March 8, 2008 by Dan Williams

[paulthistle]

Alan,

You are so on the money.

No, I do not have trials bikes on my floor.

The whole problem in my mind is that there is no distinction between dealer and distributor.

Why would anyone want to shop from me when they can call the Distributer/Retailer. Ordering parts? Call the Distributor/ retailer.

None of my other suppliers sell to the public. AT ALL. Period. Just try to get one on the phone.

So AL, if you want a part, who do you call?

It is not you (the consumers) fault. That is the way the current Distributor/Retailers work. It's just the system in place.

But for me as a retailer to commit 50K to 75K to a product, I better be able to market the product and get refferrals from the distributor. Not find out they sold direct to the consumer. Because to sell these I think you are going to have to stock a complete line and common service parts.

Even my parts distributors refer consumers to my store.

I already service trials bikes.

People that buy products from you expect service from you. Walmart is doing a heck of a job turning that around.

I'm not saying we should try to promote trials. And I thought your response rate to the flyers you sent out was very interesting.

The question was about Importer direct. Which I would say it already is Importer Direct.

It is only my naive opinion of what would need to change to make selling trials bikes profitable to the importer. Some may be comfortable with the status quo, and or, the current system is just the way it has evolved. And I probably don't know squat.

But I think that Trials bikes could be effectivly cross promoted to other motorcyclists. NOT to encourage them to compete, but as a means to increase the enjoyment of their current passtime. A trials bike is just fun to ride, and improves your motorcycle "Motor Skills".

Dan your post in right on the money. But the motorcycle to bicycle margins are not even close. Average retail markup of my product is 10 to 15%. Then to maintain that margin I will need to add on assembly. I rarely get retail. The average bicycle margin is 30%. So take that 7K trials bike and make $350?? Maybe. That 7K bicycle has a margin of $2100!!! That is a fact! And my 30% number is conservative. Most bicycle dealers like to make 40%. But the distributors are not retailers.

I do not envy the importers. I am sure I don't have the faintest idea how hard it is. I would like to sell their product. But I can't go "Head to Head" with them like I could with another dealer.

I am not a fan of government intervention. They rarely make any situation to do with economics better. The best thing they could do is free up industry with the fair tax. So our products would be compettive abroad. Then we could show what american manufacturing can do!

And I believe compettion is what makes prices lower. As consumers it is at our descretion to buy or not. When consumer confidence is low, sales slow. We all want the best deal, for us. You have a long term relationship with your dealer. And now he happens to import as well. I am sure that was a leap to go from dealer to importer. You are comfortable with him and that is what a good dealer makes you, comfortable. But there are a lot of consumers out there that don't know what it is to be comfortable, and don't care. They never develope any sort of bond with their dealer. It would be a relationship of Mistrust. A sleeping with one eye open sort of thing.

Do you have a car dealer, you buy from that you know that well? I doubt it. Why not? You spend more on cars.

You mentioned the Chinese, remember what japan did in the 60's. Now they have a higher average income than us. So with things happening on a global scale much faster now than in the sixties, what is the chinese consumer going to demand? Higher pay? Similar products? Honda's sales in the country have soared. The chinese are on the road to being like the rest of the world. Well, maybe a dirt road. I expect their products to escalate in price as manufacturing standards are implemented. You know, in china if you do a bad job for the government.They kill you. The person in charge of exports was found taking bribes two years ago. He was executed last year.

[ron]

I've Stayed out of this a long time as to not get bashed and thrown under the bus but here goes .. Paul in response to your questions and comments.. well The only way an Importer / distributor can do as you wish , is if ALL DEALERS are willing to A) stock parts.. not all just necessary parts.. to have bikes on the floor.. .. In My Case when a dealer (RARELY EVER) HAS BIKES In stock on his /her floor .. I send every inquiry to them .. EVERY that is within 75 miles of them ... We have a few dealers we do this with .. They are very satisfied with the way we handle all aspects of our business.. simple yet straight forward.. Some dealers call buy the minimum number of bikes and disappear .. do you know this will happen when they talk to you? No...I do my best to protect my dealers who stock goods.. I Do Sell at retail.. I have a dealership too.. but this is what we are in business for is to sell motorcycles, not at discounts but at retail to customers..Parts Dealers by this I mean dealers who carry parts .. Same thing If the customer calls me and says he called the dealer in his area and he does not have it in stock .. I sell it to him from my retail store.. so you are not undercut and the customer is happy.. We have also offered the dealers special discount coupons to give to there clubs at banquets in the past.. obviously the Euro and Dollar differance is making these programs more difficult.. there is NO money to do a National Advertising Program .. I have been to moto cross tracks and gncc events and other events doing shows and demo rides .. in the past . All told I sold one bike from this.. So where do we go from here .. well ,We have demo's scheduled and go to all local and regional events along with the world championships and all nationals.. We will hit a couple of endurocross events to show bikes if we can .. We love this Sport, and we do our best to promote it and promote our product professionally.. Hopefully this will shed some light.. As far as the Importer Direct issue ... Not sure Some areas of the country require it .. Some areas have Great Dealers full stocking and Many Happy customers..

[kjax]

I've Stayed out of this a long time as to not get bashed and thrown under the bus but here goes .. Paul in response to your questions and comments.. well The only way an Importer / distributor can do as you wish , is if ALL DEALERS are willing to A) stock parts.. not all just necessary parts.. to have bikes on the floor.. .. In My Case when a dealer (RARELY EVER) HAS BIKES In stock on his /her floor .. I send every inquiry to them .. EVERY that is within 75 miles of them ... We have a few dealers we do this with .. They are very satisfied with the way we handle all aspects of our business.. simple yet straight forward.. Some dealers call buy the minimum number of bikes and disappear .. do you know this will happen when they talk to you? No...I do my best to protect my dealers who stock goods.. I Do Sell at retail.. I have a dealership too.. but this is what we are in business for is to sell motorcycles, not at discounts but at retail to customers..Parts Dealers by this I mean dealers who carry parts .. Same thing If the customer calls me and says he called the dealer in his area and he does not have it in stock .. I sell it to him from my retail store.. so you are not undercut and the customer is happy.. We have also offered the dealers special discount coupons to give to there clubs at banquets in the past.. obviously the Euro and Dollar differance is making these programs more difficult.. there is NO money to do a National Advertising Program .. I have been to moto cross tracks and gncc events and other events doing shows and demo rides .. in the past . All told I sold one bike from this.. So where do we go from here .. well ,We have demo's scheduled and go to all local and regional events along with the world championships and all nationals.. We will hit a couple of endurocross events to show bikes if we can .. We love this Sport, and we do our best to promote it and promote our product professionally.. Hopefully this will shed some light.. As far as the Importer Direct issue ... Not sure Some areas of the country require it .. Some areas have Great Dealers full stocking and Many Happy customers..

Ron, from what you say it certainly seems that the discipline and structure I was asking about exsists within your circle. Can all manufacturers and importers say the same? If the importer is running his own dealership under the same rules as any other dealer, that sure seems to fair enough. Lord knows in this economy, you might not make it without the added cash flow from retail. If all dealers and importers played by the same set of rules, then it comes down to the individual running each operation and the popularity of each machine. Which in my opinion is the way it should be.

If anyone wants to get some exposure here in MI let me know......

[sirhc]

Going with what Ron and Ishy have said obviously the Importers have to take care of themselves first. If I instantly stopped being a dealer all that would happen is I would have a BUNCH of parts to use (many that wouldn't work on my bikes) and some helmets that wouldn't fit me or my son. Financially I would be fine. For an Importer this is their lively hood. So if what they feel what works best for them to have good loyal dealers then that's what they do. If they want to sell direct and they feel that is the best way for them to survive then so be it.

I have been to moto cross tracks and gncc events and other events doing shows and demo rides .. in the past . All told I sold one bike from this..

I have found the same thing, have done the demos and people seem interested, but never do anything. Last Oct. the San Diego club did a big trials demo at a bike expo. My wife (I was out setting up for a trials) went and set up a little booth, took some bikes and gave out a bunch of brochures and cards. When she came home she told me I had better get on the ball because from the interest generated my phone was about to ring off the hook!! Well not one call from there. This past weekend I took my son out to race MX. I didn't race because I had been sick so I brought my trials bike to ride around and see if there is any interest. I talked to a lot of people who seemed very interested and gave out a lot of cards. I dought I will get a call. So what should we do? I don't know. At this point I plan on keep doing demos and taking my trials bikes to as many places as possible, you never know because I also get calls from guys who say they just never see trials and didn't even know it was going on around here.

[motovintage]

it's been 25 years since I saw a trials bike on a show room floor, these days new trials bikes are sold by trials riders that have regular jobs. I kinda like it that way, the dealer is always at your event to demo the latest bikes, and I have never had any problemb getting parts from them, if you cut out the local dealer, who is going to be at your event now, the corporate importer is not going to be at your local event. Sure I want for the days where you could walk into a bike shop and sample several trials models and pick up a new rear fender from the shelf, unless trials has a new surge we are definatly in a micro-market and should consider ouselves lucky to be able to purchase a variety of new trials bikes.

Edited March 12, 2008 by MotoVintage

[copemech]

I figured all this out and did the math. It costs me just as much to get a new bike every year as I spend on beer.

As I cannot afford too many bad habits, I wonder if I could become a BEER dealer in an effort to get a deal for myself and all my friends? Maybe this would get a few off that Budwiser too, just like Gassers?

[peter9000uk]

Going with what Ron and Ishy have said obviously the Importers have to take care of themselves first. If I instantly stopped being a dealer all that would happen is I would have a BUNCH of parts to use (many that wouldn't work on my bikes) and some helmets that wouldn't fit me or my son. Financially I would be fine. For an Importer this is their lively hood. So if what they feel what works best for them to have good loyal dealers then that's what they do. If they want to sell direct and they feel that is the best way for them to survive then so be it.

I have found the same thing, have done the demos and people seem interested, but never do anything. Last Oct. the San Diego club did a big trials demo at a bike expo. My wife (I was out setting up for a trials) went and set up a little booth, took some bikes and gave out a bunch of brochures and cards. When she came home she told me I had better get on the ball because from the interest generated my phone was about to ring off the hook!! Well not one call from there. This past weekend I took my son out to race MX. I didn't race because I had been sick so I brought my trials bike to ride around and see if there is any interest. I talked to a lot of people who seemed very interested and gave out a lot of cards. I dought I will get a call. So what should we do? I don't know. At this point I plan on keep doing demos and taking my trials bikes to as many places as possible, you never know because I also get calls from guys who say they just never see trials and didn't even know it was going on around here.

Chris,

I used to be a member of the SCTA when I worked over there (SoCal), came home in 1996 and haven't sat on a trials bike since! Has anyone thought about going through the various clubs membership records say for the last 10 years and see how many ex members are no longer and hitting them up with a mailshot? There must also be a whole bunch of people in the area that used to ride way back when and have an old twin shock bike gathering dust in their garage/shed, how about a class aimed at them at ATA events? Say hello to Dwane Stone, Mark Oldar, John Thompson for me (Pete Thatcher) will you

[paulthistle]

Chris,

I used to be a member of the SCTA when I worked over there (SoCal), came home in 1996 and haven't sat on a trials bike since! Has anyone thought about going through the various clubs membership records say for the last 10 years and see how many ex members are no longer and hitting them up with a mailshot?

I thought I would do that for the stra. So I sent a 2008 schedule / invitation to ride, by email. We had about 500 names. Of those 313 had email addresses. When run through the email server, 46% bounced and 29% were opened. This is a post card style of the email.stra_post_card_front.pdfstra_post_card_back.pdf

That is certainly a good way to promote the club's events. I would imagine there would be a lot of trials bike buying, trading and selling. All good. At this past weekends event, our first this year, the promoter used a lot of non trials checkers. The land owner, who is a new and enthusiastic trials rider, had a lot of friends and people from the area help with preparing for the trials, clear sections and such. Alot of non trials people were exposed to a lot of trials. Most were bicycle riders, you know "core" types. Some used to ride motorcycles, some still ride.

Maybe the fun riding aspect is the thing to promote the most. You know"You meet the nicest people on a honda" or "Kawasaki lets the good times roll". If I were those companies, I would still use those slogans EVERYDAY! Avis has been using the "We're #2 so we try harder" since the sixties.

Edited March 13, 2008 by paul_thistle