jse Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 While I have watched Gazillion dollar race cars and bikes pulled into the welding area, beat into place, and welded while they were still running and not have a lick of problems, and head right back out onto the track. Sitting at home, in my shop I would pull the boxes off my Sherco to weld up the frame. Ya know, Alan, I was thinking about your post and had noticed the same thing about seeing the pit welding. My guess is that it's like some of the full-on race cars I was involved with in the past. We really didn't use the frame as ground (no lights or stuff to worry about) but ran dedicated ground wire to the components we needed to, so frame/suspension welding would be isolated from the electrical stuff. My guess is that's how they get away with it. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copemech Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 Ya know, Alan,I was thinking about your post and had noticed the same thing about seeing the pit welding. My guess is that it's like some of the full-on race cars I was involved with in the past. We really didn't use the frame as ground (no lights or stuff to worry about) but ran dedicated ground wire to the components we needed to, so frame/suspension welding would be isolated from the electrical stuff. My guess is that's how they get away with it. Jon I think you can get by with it just fine, all the way up to the point where your ground clamp has just a little bit too much resistance and some really funky spikes start resonating through the structure looking for some place to go. This (once again) is like sex without a condom, be safe or pay the price, cheap insurance! Key components on a trials bike are the ignition unit, regulator and rectifier. Not too worried about the trigger component in the mag as long as everything else is disconnected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan bechard Posted April 1, 2008 Report Share Posted April 1, 2008 At least the stuff I have been around Jon, it just boiled down too, it was worth the risk. At the upper level stuff I have been at (Not on the level that you have) but have done World Karting and top MX stuff here in the 80's it just boiled down too if it did not get welded, they would miss the race, and the cost of electronics was far less then the cost of the race. I think the errant voltage is an anomoly that often comes from poor welding practice, ie, guy grounds the frame, welds on engine, wonders why he looses bearings, more often then not. On trials bikes though, especially ones with hard to get electronics, I would remove them from the chassis as I can usually do that (or get someone else too) in the time I get my weld prep done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jse Posted April 1, 2008 Report Share Posted April 1, 2008 (edited) At least the stuff I have been around Jon, it just boiled down too, it was worth the risk.At the upper level stuff I have been at (Not on the level that you have) but have done World Karting and top MX stuff here in the 80's it just boiled down too if it did not get welded, they would miss the race, and the cost of electronics was far less then the cost of the race. I think the errant voltage is an anomoly that often comes from poor welding practice, ie, guy grounds the frame, welds on engine, wonders why he looses bearings, more often then not. On trials bikes though, especially ones with hard to get electronics, I would remove them from the chassis as I can usually do that (or get someone else too) in the time I get my weld prep done. I agree. When you're in the spiraling vortex of an important race, you take mechanical chances you would not normally take during testing and the possible cost of an electrical component is far outweighed by the cost of a DNF. On a Trials bike, and paying mind to a cost/benefit ratio, I would always take off all the electrics before welding. Jon Edited April 1, 2008 by JSE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo Posted April 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2008 It is the rust tough stuff Hi Copemech, Is this what he can looks like? TA Website From what I've seen on the web. I'm not sure if they are still producing the Semi-flat-black any more?? Best of balance. Neo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copemech Posted April 6, 2008 Report Share Posted April 6, 2008 This marketing stuff? The last one I purchased a year or so ago just says "rust tough" enamel, and is a similar can, but does not say"industrial", cannot recall now, but probably picked it up at the local auto parts store or home workshop. I have used that stuff for years to finish off instrument panels in my small aircraft as it is a non glaring surface, looks good, and touches up easily. The old cans were very basic, had none of the modern graphics, could be industrial as I originally came accross them at work in the auto trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo Posted September 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2008 Hi All, I'd appreciate it if you could pass your comments and experiences on the update on this..... TA - 06 Crack Best of balance. Neo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan bechard Posted September 3, 2008 Report Share Posted September 3, 2008 HAZ or heat affected Zone Crack. If it were mine, I would strip a bit of stuff off. Grind it clean. If I was in a rush it would be MIG, if I had the time and was at the house TIG. Might be inclined to add a little reinforcing, but you always run the risk of making things too strong, and moving the break somwhere else. I would look at the later bikes in that area and verify that the factory has not already done something as mentioned, then plagerize their work. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted September 4, 2008 Report Share Posted September 4, 2008 If anyone watched Charlie Boorman & Ewan MacGregor when they got a BMW welded the ABS etc didnt work afterwards because they didnt disconnect the various electrics ! Gas Weld ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo Posted January 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 Some of you might remember this post. I had the frame professionally Tig welded but alas it cracked again....Parallel and about 5mm away from the new weld. I need to find a way to stop this happening again. I Hear that the late 06 (possibly 07) frames had additional strengthening behind the cross member. Can someone please help me by emailing me a a photo of that additional strengthening behind the cross member? This would involved lowering the rad to expose the cross member on the inside...sorry. Please can you post here or PM me and I'll let you know my email address. Best of balance. Neo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copemech Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 Neo, I would like to help, but I do not think my early '07 frame is any different from yours. Post a piccie of the thing, I have never seen one cracked. I was told that the "T" weld was done to spread the load in that area. But I do not have a newer one to compare. Heating the area to normalize after welding may also be helpfull. I have heard that a number of replacement frames were sent out early on. Might be worth checking with your importer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo Posted February 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Hi Cope, http://www.trials.com.au/phpBB3/viewtopic....;p=13665#p13665 Stay tuned...I'll take some more at the weekend. Best of balance. Neo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirhc Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Have you checked with your dealer or importer? Here in the U.S. one of our local riders cracked the frame on his '06 and they sent him a new frame free of charge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastcoasthopper Posted September 4, 2010 Report Share Posted September 4, 2010 I have a 2006 that had no use for almost 3 years, then I rode the hell out of it this year and guess what? Broken frame. I asked RYP to replace it, but he says it's "Way out of warranty". (didn't think there was any warranty??). I had the crack welded, and I guess I got lucky, because the only thing I removed was the Radiator! It still runs great! I heard the new frame has beefed up gussets. Can someone post pictures of it so I can get mine beefed up the same way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo Posted September 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2010 Hi Hopper, Sorry to give you a bit of bad news but if all you removed was the radiator chances are you'll see that crack come back. I say this because to fix it properly the crack must be brought up to temperature with a torch, then TIG welded, then allowed to cool gradually. All this takes time/heat and a lot of paint (and stuff like decals and wires) gets cooked in the processes. I know because I did the same as you (the quick way) the the first and second time with a local welding company. The third time it cracked I took EVERYTHING off the frame and had a real top guy do the TIG-ing for me. That 06 frame never actually made it back on my 250 because I bought an 07 frame and fitted that on my 06/250 instead. Now beefing up your 06 frame is not as simple as it sound. Firstly the more you weld any metal the weaker the edges of the weld will get. That's unavoidable and one of the reasons it needs to be done buy someone with lots of expertise as he will minimise that effect as best he can. Yes there are two additional weld lines on the 07 frame but it's not recommend that these are added now for the reason I stated above. Another thing is the 06 an 07 frames are actually different shapes and it's not easy to see the differences when they fully assembled. But with both (empty) frames placed on the ground on their 4 baseplate mounting points, the steering column on the 07 sits about 2cm higher off the ground than the 06 frame. And I believe that this change in geometry has prevented the the 07 frame from getting the same cracks that the 06 frame did. Having said all this I don't think the 06 frame is a bad one. And it doesn't crack if it's ridden with a certain level of respect....You can bash'em hard OK....but you just can't smash'em hard Best of balance. Neo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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