Spot The Difference

[nigel dabster]

Scorpa 2005 photos are out as well now so with Sherco and GG it really is a case of spot the difference in the 2 strokes, exclude the cosmetic colour changes and they are pretty much the same as 04.

No mention of a Scorpa 4t so it looks like a Sherco mont race to get the 4 strokes out to the Public, who will be first???

[jordi]

Surely Scorpa have already won the race to produce and sell the first modern production 4stroke. Discounting its top level competiveness and engine size it is at least readily available,

[boofont]

Surely Scorpa have already won the race to produce and sell the first modern production 4stroke.  Discounting its top level competiveness and engine size it is at least readily available,

For sure! And lets not forget they did well in the 03 SSDT. Perhaps its because they are 125's that people seem to overlook them over 250 2t?

Edited August 2, 2004 by boofont

[t-shock 250]

If that's the case, then the aircooled monoshock TLR250R was first in the '80s (not the UK twinshock), followed by the RTL250.

Both had full size 250 engines.

[bikespace]

If that's the case, then the aircooled monoshock TLR250R was first in the '80s (not the UK twinshock), followed by the RTL250.

Both had full size 250 engines.

I agree - If being a four stroke was the only criteria then Scorpa were the first of the new era, but there were 4 strokes in the 80's which are much more competitive.

Very nice that Scorpa have put out a cute 4 stroke to appeal to the existing twin-shock/pre-65 lads, and they're even providing big seats for the type of rider where leg bending or prolonged standing is a problem (me before very long).

They've not produced anything to compete with the existing range have they???

[nigel dabster]

I don't think putting a trailie engine in a trials bike frame, which I could do in my shed, makes either a) a good bike a competitive machine or c) what could be compared to the new mont or sherco in any shape or form.

Without doubt the little scorpa is a cracking machine and in the right hands can do amazing stuff, but it has limitations, and I would rather eat snails than ride one.

[dgshannon]

Without doubt the little scorpa is a cracking machine and in the right hands can do amazing stuff, but it has limitations, and I would rather eat snails than ride one.

I suppose it all depends on whether those "limitations" are above, or below, the rider's skill level.

By all accounts of those who have spent time on the bike, those limitations are not a factor for the average club rider and in fact, may promote better riding skills. The act of compensating for the smaller engine forces a thought process which helps keep them out of situations that they used to rely on power to get out of. Not to mention the situations that power got them into.

The high end Scorpa 4-stroke is now rumored to be postponing it's debut until a 2005 world round. In the interim, some interesting flavors of the 125 are on tap. The factory built 150cc bike is scheduled to be shipping at the end of this month. With a bigger piston, stroker crank, trials spec camshaft, new CDI ignition, all the billet aluminum bits off the 250, handlebars off the 250, and supposedly more, it should prove for an intersting addition to the model lineup.

I will be getting a new Scorpa as the first batch appears in the US in late August or early September. Currently, I am on the fence on whether to go with the 150 4-stroke or the 250 2-stroke. I guess we will see what ends up in my garage in a few weeks!

Edited August 3, 2004 by DGShannon

[nigel dabster]

I suppose it all depends on whether those "limitations" are above, or below, the rider's skill level.

I'm sorry but I just don't buy this Birkett you will do as well on a little bike philosophy at all. Taken to extreme we would do just as well with cable brakes and clutch twin shocks and drum brakes. The amount of power churned out by my 290 is directly related to the amount I twist the throttle, ok I use first maybe more than I should but I have never run out of power on a hill climb or thought my bike won't get up a step. I doubt I would ever feel the same on a ttr.

[the artist formerly known as ish]

The first four PNTA championship rounds this year I rode on my Sherco 2.9 and won all four, riding against the same riders all year, the second four I rode on the Scorpa 125, best I did was a third, is the sherco 290 a better bike YES!

but we are comparing a 272 cc machine against a 125 machine.

All Nigel's points are valid about getting up big stuff and having the confidence, on sections with big stuff on the 125 I didn't have the confidence and it cost me, however I have found you do need to be a lot more aggressive on the 125 and it will do it, so there is a learning curve to be added into the equation, the little 125 is lots of fun to ride and on streams and technical stuff very good, that's why I ride it, BUT it's no 290 Sherco.

The bike costs a grand less new over here and many riders who are new to the sport would be served better by riding a lower cc machine, but it's the good old USA and bigger is better

320 normally aspirated and a 260 fuel injected, going to be interesting seeing how they perform against each other in competition.

[marky g]

I suppose it all depends on whether those "limitations" are above, or below, the rider's skill level.

I'm sorry but I just don't buy this Birkett you will do as well on a little bike philosophy at all. Taken to extreme we would do just as well with cable brakes and clutch twin shocks and drum brakes. The amount of power churned out by my 290 is directly related to the amount I twist the throttle, ok I use first maybe more than I should but I have never run out of power on a hill climb or thought my bike won't get up a step. I doubt I would ever feel the same on a ttr.

Dabster,you must work for the labour party..there full of s..t too

Just kidding!!!

I think what DGShannon is saying your average club rider (see you and me) wont do any worse riding say a 125 Scorpa (or any other small cc machine) in the type of events that "WE" are likely to enter.

Now judging by your picture with doug, you don't look like the sort of chap who still rides the expert route (no offence)

I stand corrected if you do still "hav it large" up 4ft rock steps and bounce your bike around the course, the only area where I would agree with you is a muddy 'steep' hill climb is the only area where the SY125 will struggle.

I ride mine round the clubman route in wales and I find it copes great, I do admit it would struggle on the expert route with those steep climbs etc, but it's not really aimed at your average expert is it

But, as if I really give a s..t

[munch]

having just come back from riding with mr dabster in france, i think mr g underestimates mr dabsters ability. 4ft rock steps were the smaller ones

[nigel dabster]

Aye when I was a lad etc etc.

Seriously Munch has a point we did have some stuff which was a bit beyond me to be honest, but if either him or me had been on the 125 Scorps I'm not sure we would have attempted half the stuff we did. Never done a rock step section in third in a trial before thats for sure and if I felt that was right for the 290 what would I have thought about it for the Scorpa.

Conversly and here is the exception there was a guy 2 routes harder on a 125 and he was getting up 7 foot steps comparitevely easily, but the thing was nearly murdered to do it. Think it was one of these French 160 conversions though.

Edited August 4, 2004 by Nigel Dabster

[dgshannon]

I'm sorry but I just don't buy this Birkett you will do as well on a little bike philosophy at all. Taken to extreme we would do just as well with cable brakes and clutch twin shocks and drum brakes.

What connection is there between a "little bike philosophy" and "cable brakes and clutch, twin shocks, and drum brakes?"

Whatever "Birkett" is, it seems as if you may be trying to sell a little yourself in an attempt to paint some logical connection between small displacement with old technology. Riders who run up 4 to 7 foot steps do not represent the "Club Riders" we are talking about. Although, as you noted, "there was a guy 2 routes harder on a 125 and he was getting up 7 foot steps comparitevely easily", so it is still not outside the little Scorpa's "limitations".

Ishy got the point - "The bike costs a grand less new over here and many riders who are new to the sport would be served better by riding a lower cc machine, but it's the good old USA and bigger is better"

As did Marky G - "I think what DGShannon is saying your average club rider (see you and me) wont do any worse riding say a 125 Scorpa (or any other small cc machine) in the type of events that "WE" are likely to enter."

Edited August 4, 2004 by DGShannon

[bikespace]

I'm reserving judgement a little until I've seen someone really wind one up.

I would like to have a go just to see how they feel generally, but no matter what, on someone else's bike I'm really not going to wind it up too much.

I think we probably are comparing chalk and cheese. If a big lad like myself or Marky G rode a Sherco 125 for example it would probably have no more guts than the Scorpa (I'm suspecting probably less).

In fact I have ridden the 125 Sherco and it does suffer a fair bit under this kind of stress.

I'd love to see what the likes of Ross Danby could make it do though and see how he feels it compares to his 2 stroke 125.

[marky g]

Your more than welcome to have a go on mine Gaz, Ross too if he wants, don't be afraid to rev the nuts off mine either, I do it all the time

Might see you at Hawkstone this weekend mate, maybe have a beer or ten