biffsgasgas Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 I have a bit of a time sensitive question for any of the gu ru's out there. I have heard of a lighter clutch spring for the pro's. I have found this one and will probably call Jack in the morning (currently sunday and i am pooped from riding all day) http://www.jackscycles.com/lpse.html Has anybody tried using this on a 300 pro. It does not mention this cc. Does anybody know of another way to reduce my pull. Before you ask i have measured the stack height at .380 inches which is 9.65 mm from my calculations. I replaced the clutch due to the old one slipping and having a stack height of .310 inches wayyy out of spec. I am using atf and change it every three rides. I am using dot 4 and not mineral oil. I have heard mixed emotions about mineral oil. If i have to order parts i want to tomorrow (monday) so i can have them by Friday (ride on saturday and sunday) (thus the time sensitive) Thanks in advance! --Biff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laser1 Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 Hi Biff, You should talk to Jack (my Dad) for a complete run down on the lighter spring. Basically he developed it for a friend that had tendonitus to reduce the pull. He has tested it on 280's and 250's and it does provide a lighter pull. However, he didnt spec it for the 300 because he worried that the extra power on the 300 (with and aggresive expert rider) would required the OEM stiffer spring. If you like a fast and aggresive clutch for doing big splatters, it's probably not a great addition - if you want to smooth out the clutch then you should give it a try. I really liked it on the bikes I tried (a 250 and 280) as it gave it a more progressive feel. If you dont mind the work of putting the spring in (pretty quick job), I would say just try it and see. Im sure he would take it back if you didnt like it. You didnt mention what year bike your on. I "think" it was 05 that the pro's went to a lighter spring to reduce the pull. The 250 ,280 and 300 all use the same one. If your on a 04 or older - maybe just the change to a 05 spring would be a good choice. These are even lighter and custom tuned to the bike (250 vs 280) and rider size and style. I know he some in stock that he could fed ex tomorrow. FYI: Im pretty sure he likes dot 5 in the clutch as well. (ask him though) Trebor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laser1 Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 Biff - just noticed that you have a 04 pro. As mentioned, The 05 spring has a lighter pull due to the new factory spec lighter spring. (I think its 20% less than 04.) The LiPSE spring is (nominally) another 20% lighter on top of that. He does have some LiPSE springs that are slightly stiffer and some that are slightly lighter. He probably has a stock 05 spring as well. If time is of the essence, start with the stock 05 as that is fully tested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biffsgasgas Posted March 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 (edited) Hey thanks Laser1, Acutally the main reason why i am looking into this is because I rode your dads bike yesterday and last weekend. Robert Roosen bought his 06 off of him a couple of months ago. We were bike swapping and your dads old bike is worlds of difference compared to mine in the clutch. BTW your dads 06 used mineral oil according to the resivoir cap. Robert also has a 2003 280 and wanted to lighten up the clutch on. So I slept on my plan of action. I will probably buy both an 05 and this spring and some gaskets and do some of my own testing. Then if the LiPSE does not work well I will give it to Robert. I am an agressive expert rider who is out of control most of the time but for 40 bucks i really have more to gain then to loose. --Biff Edited March 31, 2008 by biffsgasgas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spinner Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 They changed the clutch spring in 06 not o5,I have had an o6 spring on my 05 300 for over a year with no problems at all. Just set the finger height between 16-17mm, Don't go over 17mm or the clutch will slip! I still have the original style clutch plates in the bike, and I use dot 5 in the clutch m/c not mineral oil. This last mod came from the gasgas importer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laser1 Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 Thanks Spinner -Your right, I now remember that it was new in 06 - A friend of mine chenged his 05 spring out to a 06 for the reduced pull - I was thinking his bike was a 04 at 1st. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biffsgasgas Posted March 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 (edited) They changed the clutch spring in 06 not o5,I have had an o6 spring on my 05 300 for over a year with no problems at all. Just set the finger height between 16-17mm, Don't go over 17mm or the clutch will slip! I still have the original style clutch plates in the bike, and I use dot 5 in the clutch m/c not mineral oil. This last mod came from the gasgas importer. Oooo good point. When I tore it back down last week i was checking for any scuffing of the slave cylinder and found none. I did measure finger height at 16 mm so i used a 1 mm shim behind the bearing to get it to be related to 17mm. Is this the proper way to adjust for finger variation? If not then how do you adjust for it. All of my fingers are dead flat and even across the board. I checked them versus some fordson blocks we have here at work. 06 not 05 got it! --Biff Edited March 31, 2008 by biffsgasgas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laser1 Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 I spoke with Jack (my dad) and he will give you a call today. He did verify he uses dot 5 on his bikes. He thought he told this to your buddy, but you never know....He is getting on in years and forgetfull at times. (I on the other hand have no excuse) I didnt think you could adjust the finger height on the 04 to newer pro's. On the older bikes, you would swap out different thickness plates (no shims involved!) until you got the finger height in spec, but I was told that the new ones (the german clutch packs) all used matched sets of fiber/steel plates and had to be replaced as a set. Ask Jack, he's the expert on pro's. Im just recalling diffferent stories from being around riders who are really finicky about there clutch setups. I ride a 280 TXT Edition, - so not a pro guru. Let us know what you do Trebor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biffsgasgas Posted March 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 Your dad rules! We talked and i have a couple of springs on the way (both an 06 and his special spring). If it slips then we will know. He has never tested it on the 300. We discussed the 16mm height and it shouldnt be an issue so i am giong to remove my shim. I am going to grab video and pictures of pull strength with a fish scale before durring and after. I will keep you updated. Thanks for the fast repsonse guys. I knew i went to the correct place. --Biff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biffsgasgas Posted March 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 By the way i came from a 2000 280 txt to this bike. On that bike i removed 2 of the springs out of the 6 and never had a problem with slipping. Remove the bolts springs and washers from opposite sides. Works like a champ! --Biff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jse Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 Your dad rules! We talked and i have a couple of springs on the way (both an 06 and his special spring). If it slips then we will know. He has never tested it on the 300. We discussed the 16mm height and it shouldnt be an issue so i am giong to remove my shim. I am going to grab video and pictures of pull strength with a fish scale before durring and after. I will keep you updated. Thanks for the fast repsonse guys. I knew i went to the correct place. --Biff Biff, As mentioned, the 06' and 07 up has the thinner spring. The DOT-5 will give a lighter pull and I'd use Ford Type-F ATF (rather than the GM AutoTrak or Dexron II) in the tranny (for the 06' on up Pro's also), as it has a slightly better heat tolerance and a little more "bite" that will compensate for the lighter spring. If you really want to get a little crazy, I polish the M/C and servo cylinder bores with Cratex (a rubberized abrasive) and it makes the clutch pull like through soft butter with no slippage. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biffsgasgas Posted March 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 Hmmm type F.... As I have lots of that around (look at where i am located and put two and two together) I might run a test with that too. I have used type f in some of our transmissions to fix engagement issues. I am using regular mercon/dex from the shelf and have not had a problem with slipping. I did a master cylinder rebuild and pulled appart the slave with no scuffs found. Jack is sending me new slave orings as they apparently have a coating. I think i am going to be in business here. --Biff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laser1 Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 Biff - good luck with the clutch. I hope he sent you one of the thicker LiPSE to help the odds of it working on the 300. It might, as Im sure there "may" be some "Raga" margin built into the std OEM spring. My Dad told me about the trick with removing the springs on my bike, but I never bothered to try it. I did switch to AutotraK II and it seemed to help alittle - but not much. It helped smooth the shifting though, so I like it on my bike never the less. Now that I feel the difference a softer/smoother clutch can make on improved ridability, I may give it a test. JSE also reminded me that my dad can get special honed master cylinders from GG. I'll bet polishing really does the trick. I'll have to pass that one on. Good point on the Ford ATF-F to help the bite. Thanks JSE. Good Luck Trebor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biffsgasgas Posted April 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2008 Update! Got the parts in at work and paraded around the office all happy as a pig in poo.... Put in the disc from Jack and I could not believe how incredibly light it felt. night and day!!!! Fired it up and got it warm 10 mins or so of ballancing in the back yard. The engagement was long and smooth even with type F (probably hasnt soaked into the plates yet) Got on the rear brake and popped the clutch in 1st gear. stall..... SWEET! Started it up on the rear brake in 2nd gear at idle... Stall very SWEET! Again in 3rd and 4th Launch in 1st gear can pogo on the rear (mind you only 1 or 2 pogos is my limit) flat ground. Launch in 2nd gear better but i thought i felt her slip. maybe.... Go to launch in 3rd gear and she slipps.... hmmm Ok no biggie this is what testing is all about. I have the 06 spring and i am putting that in the bike tomorrow night. I left my fish scale at work so i will get some numbers asap. We are putting the LiPSE spring in Roberts 03 280 that his son rides (not as agressive as me) probably next week. Stay tuned. --Biff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laser1 Posted April 3, 2008 Report Share Posted April 3, 2008 Thanks for the feedback and testing update Biff - The pull is butter light isnt it - Too bad it sounds like the 300 is just too much for it. It will work fine on the 280/250 - it has been used by one of the top experts in New England on his 280 - as well as a tested by a few big advanced riders. Did you have to adjust your engagement point at the lever much? I assume the 06 spring will work fine, but let us know how it goes. Take Care Trebor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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