Scarborough Youth 2-day: Thoughts...

[neonsurge]

I was up at the Scarborough Youth 2-Day for both days this year and apart from the astonishingly high level of riding from all of the kids, a few of the sections got me thinking about the challenge facing both those fine people who lay out the trials and the modern style of trials riding.

First of all, I'm a p*ss poor clubman level rider so my opinion may not count for much, but while all of the instructional videos and trials training school quite rightly place the emphasis on the basics of riding I'm convinced that a few of the sections (especially today) were simply impossible to get through without using what are occasionally referred to as "trick" techniques (nose wheelies, front and rear hopping etc.). Interestingly, nearly all of the youth riders seemed to have no problem with this, flicking their bikes all over the place; those that didn't had a very hard time of it and invariably fived the section in question by ending up riding out of the markers.

So has trials turned a corner? Far better riders than I say that you ought to be able to get through virtually any section with a solid command of the basics but on the evidence of this weekend I'm not sure that this is true any more. This wasn't a national level event (although some of today's sections seemed to be at least as difficult as those I've seen at national youth rounds this year) but a well-developed "modern" technique seemed to be essential for the A & B class at least.

This isn't some old fogey "it's not real trials any more" style lament, more of an out-loud wondering if what was once considered "trick" is now mainstream and necessary to do well at anything above club level?

[bikespace]

Well I'm old school (well I'm getting old anyway), but I have to admit, I think that if trials is to progress, the "trick" techniques have to come in.

It's 20 years since we started doing the bunny hop and flicking the back end around etc etc and at some point it has to become recognised as mainstream trials, especially in the Youth and anything above novice trials.

If this excluded riders with lesser bikes I'd probably be more against it, but flick turns are possible on almost any bike (probably only excluding pre-65 (and not all of them)), so I can't see the problem.

We run a youth beginner class, so no one is left unable to ride any route at all. The youth beginner is no nonsense to help new riders come along.

There is a league of people who believe that trials should be for a nice gentle ride out on a Sunday afternoon, and that's fine as long as it doesn't get in the way of the people who believe you should 'Be as good as you possibly can'.

If people want a nice gentle ride out they can ride whatever course they want and ride out of class. I will, and have done for things such as running in a bike, nursing a niggling injury.

Just my two penneth anyway

[vinnied]

Sorry lads but i think it is the other way around, trick riding has destroyed the sport, and made it near impossible to observe, without getting your head nocked off.

It has now become impossible for up and coming riders to ride a section without using the clutch, by this i mean there technique

Vinnie

Edited August 18, 2004 by Vinnied

[bikespace]

As far as I can see it's not the trick riding that's made the observing impossible, it's the rules which were brought in to combat the trick riding.

If it were actually embraced things would be much easier.

As I mentioned in another thread discussing Hawkstone, I observed on the Sunday and it was fairly straight forward, mostly because of the FIM rules which allow the bike to go sideways and for the bike to stop.

The only improvement I can see is to allow the bikes to go backwards as well, then I'll be happy to observe every time.

I've seen a section ridden beautifully but if you were absolutely strict, you'd have to admit that during some of the hopping the bike probably went backwards an inch or two or three.

Make the rule - no going backwards (or stopping) with a foot down like it used to be.

The no stopping rule hasn't helped cut the time down. If you stop you want to make the most of it.

What d'ya reckon?

[vinnied]

Make the rule - no going backwards (or stopping) with a foot down like it used to be.

What d'ya reckon?

with you there 100%

Vinnie

[jrsunt]

The scarborough 2 day is one of the highest level youth trials in the country, you expect them to be hopping, and developing the skills of a young dougie lampkin. If you want natural sections go to your local youth trials club, they are to have an enjoyable day out, being quite challanged in some sections but nothing dangerous. Those ridings at scarborough are there to find the best in the country, its marked out to find a winner rather than for the masses to enjoy.

[g.rasp]

Well said JR I totally agree

G.RASP

Edited August 18, 2004 by G.Rasp

[toofasttim]

I think you'll find that most youth riders will be competent at trick riding. It's the nature of the bikes and youth. That's not to say that they'll be able to use those tricks in a trial. Much the same way that when I was 16 I could do all the tricks that were current. IMO it really won't have much of an effect on the average club trial where some of the riders started trials at, say, 30 yrs.

[trialscot]

In reply to TooFastTim, "trick riding" skills can have a huge effect on the outcome of non-stop trials if the man setting the sections lays them out in such a way that hopping, endoing,air turns and the rest are necessary skills to have if anything like a good ride is to be achieved. By laying out a non-stop trial in this way, a tremendous (and unfair, in my opinion) advantage is given to the two or three riders who have honed their circus skills to perfection. I may be old fashioned but I firmly believe that a non-stop trial should be laid out in such a way that all sections can be tackled by all of the competitors. The "rabbits" may have to foot like demented centipedes to get through some of them for a three, but the best riders will have to work jolly hard to keep marks lost to a minimum.

I'm not referring of course to trials run under the FIM marking system, as someone above just said, that just seems to be inviting hassle for observers, but obviously that's the arena for the trick cyclists to perform in.

[bikespace]

The courses we're talking about here though are not the ones that the standard clubman should be riding.

And, although I don't believe that all of the sections should be marked out so that you need a hinge in your bike, I don't think there is anything wrong with at least 2, 3 or 4 sections needing a bit of flicking around.

Again - I stress - we're probably talking the top third of the riders here, but it's not difficult at least to learn to flick the back end round a little even if you need a dab to do it.

How are our riders supposed to compete at a higher level if the sort of riding they need is only used at that higher level?

I don't think giving an advantage to those riders that have a greater control of their machine is necessarily an unfair advantage.

I'm a bottom half (or lower) expert rider nearing 40 in the next few years. I can manage the basics of flicks with one wheel on the ground. I've not felt that I've been disadvantaged because I can't do the more serious tricks.

I get around it.

Keep it out of Novice trials - slowly bring it in as you go up to expert trials.

The traditional trials where the mixture of riders is greater (Lomax, Victory etc) don't tend to include too many requirements for tricks so not a problem.