Are the WTC/British sections too long?

[atomant]

I would like to open up a discussion on the topic of section length/difficulty for sections where a rider has a set time to complete it in. Namely the WTC & British rounds.

As an observation, I accept it is difficult for the course marker to get the section length right allowing for conditions/weather to change etc, for the rider to complete all the sections elements, and get out in good time. So when the section length (in time) is too long, I find it frustrating to see good riders 'paddling' their way out to ensure they get a 3 and not a 5 and not riding the section as the CoC intended. This is not good for the rider or the spectator IMHO.

So... Yes, the time limit must be there, but I feel the rider must be given more time in the section to have a valid attempt to ride it properly with a reasonable margin on time.

As an example, Section 4 on the Junior route yesterday had an element which was a stopper, many took 5 on it however, 1 rider who managed to get through it on a 1 to the rapturous applause of the crowd, then took a 5 as he didn't get out on time even though he rushed the rest of the section taking a 3. With scoring at this level being so close, it makes all the difference.

(This is NOT a criticism of the event which was superb so please don't take it as one )

So I say, make the sections difficult, but reward the riders who take on the difficult parts and succeed by giving them enough time to complete the section and reap the rewards.

As a suggestion, maybe design the section to be completed in no more than 70* seconds ridden normally giving 20* seconds up to the 90 for a buffer?

Now pile in.. I would like to know what others think on the subject

*change numbers as you see fit.

[ishy]

Give em an hour, they will take 61 minutes.

[ishy]

Day one results showed it was ridden twice for less than 3, so it was possible to do it, time is one way to make them take points, a shorter section may lead too more difficult sections to take more points.

[atomant]

.... a shorter section may lead too more difficult sections to take more points.

Exactly! is that a bad thing?

And yes, time can be used to take points but I want to see the skill of the rider in the art of trials, not in the art of Endurocross as an example.

[bilc0]

And yes, time can be used to take points but I want to see the skill of the rider in the art of trials,

How many time's do you want to watch someone bounce up and down on one wheel on the same spot atom.

[stevec]

I can

[ishy]

I can

[atomant]

Sad thing is the public don't turn out in droves to watch what you and I can relate to as skill, I hear it was a very good event, but most of the spectators were trials enthusiasts, would giving riders more time in the sections make it more appealing?.

I disagree. The event had plenty of people on Saturday (not so good on Sunday). The commentator asked the crowd how many present was here for the first time . I reckon around 30+% put their hands up. I spoke to some of these people and they thought it was awesome. They said they would come back as well.

To answer your question, I haven't advocated increasing the 90 seconds, just ensuring that the section is of a length that it can be done comfortably within the 90 seconds.

You will probably agree that the sections with the big steps/climbs attract the largest crowds. It is when the riders are setting themselves up for this element that the tension/excitement starts to build in the gallery.. and then, the rider attacks it and all eyes are on him/her. Can they do it .. etc

I personally think giving them more time to set up properly to attack these elements is better and more exciting than seeing someone rush to get through it dabbing with a 3 to get out on time to avoid a 5. I am talking about reducing the length of the section by around 10 to 20 seconds that's all. Not 1 minute or more..

Less work for the CoC has got to be a good thing as well

[ishy]

Overall the section scores look very good, maybe the odd section was a tad too long, but saying timing out in a section cost a rider a place or two when they have lost 50 other penalties in other sections is like saying I would of won if I hadn't of dabbed.

They all had the same time to do each section, so they all had the same chance of getting trough it or timing out.

[atomant]

They all had the same time to do each section, so they all had the same chance of getting trough it or timing out.

Thats the point. 'getting through it' as you say is not what we want to see. A display of extreme skill is what we want to see. Give them the time to display those skills is all I am asking for.

Also, Saturday was nice and sunny. Sunday was wet. The sections were slippery and took longer to do. The scores are partly higher because of the 5's taken for not getting out the sections in time and the 3's for dabbing through to avoid 5's (Junior route I am talking about).

[jimmyl]

As a C f C for a British round the time element is a bit of a pain in the rear as you get a good section and then have to work out if the rider can do it in time.

We set out the St Davids with the intention that a good clean ride would be 60 seconds, the riders then have 30 sec to get in and out of trouble.

In reality some sections maybe where taking longer than this.

Trouble is that whatever line you plan the section to have, if the rider has enough time they will go sideways, backwards, around in circles all without dabbing until they make the difficult easy. Some element of time is unfortunately needed to stop the riders taking too many liberties.

Trouble is the good boys can ride as well quickly as they can hop and jump. the lesser lights need the messing about to keep them competitive.

If the section where shorter (at least at British champ level) then they would not be challenging enough, a 120 second rule maybe would make the trial too long. One idea that crossed my mind would be a "joker" type idea where a rider would be allowed maybe 5 lots of an extra 30 seconds per trial for the odd section where they got in to trouble. This would encourage a clean ride as the rider would know if they had an extra 30 secs available to them. The number of extra times could be stamped on the punch card to avoid any abuse.

I don't think we are a million miles away at British champ level and maybe a few tweaks would help. We need to keep the BTC a good breeding ground for the youths that we have coming through at the moment. Can't remember the British scene having such talent in depth for a long time.

[atomant]

I don't think we are a million miles away at British champ level and maybe a few tweaks would help. We need to keep the BTC a good breeding ground for the youths that we have coming through at the moment. Can't remember the British scene having such talent in depth for a long time.

I agree and that's why I advocate keeping the section difficulty high. I know its a fine line but when it works, its spot on.

In relation to hopping around in a section un-necessarily, this is not in the riders interest. After all, at the top level, they have to conserve as much energy as possible and they have to get get round the loop in a set time. Better to ride efficiently than inefficiently surely?

[copemech]

I agree that there is something to that concept that makes sense, but that also complicates matters. Say you gave each rider two ten second slips on time? If he were called on time, he could pull one out!

As timeouts are the exception, rather than the rule, it just could work?

[baldilocks]

I can

[andat]

Surely part of the "skill" is to ride the sections within the prescribed time limit. If a rider spends alot of time balancing, hopping and bopping etc. and then gets a five because he has taken too long, then surley he should think to himself, I'll take a proper dab or two here and get a 1 or 2 instead of a 5?