tombo46 Posted April 30, 2008 Report Share Posted April 30, 2008 Like most young riders, My skills lie in flying up big rocks, hopping about and taking on stuff that generally requires more gonads than skill. However Fun this might be, I really need to improve on the basic stuff like finding grip. Does anyone have any tips (no matter how basic) for making the bike grip better in slippery conditions? All the best Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rev3chris Posted April 30, 2008 Report Share Posted April 30, 2008 Hi, Get a new IRC on the rear and then spend some time with Steve Saunders, he is an excellent teacher! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tombo46 Posted April 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2008 He is doing a school at barnsley on the 17th/18th may and thats not far from me, might have to give it a shot Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan williams Posted April 30, 2008 Report Share Posted April 30, 2008 A couple of things related to bike setup. The usual mistake newbies make of having to much air pressure. Get a good gauge and try to get a feel for optimum tire pressure. 3-5 PSI in the rear seems to be about the norm. More then that and you're just wasting that fine 2 ply radial. Suspension setup is another area that has a huge effect on grip. The suspension on a trials bike has a somewhat different job then the suspension on any other type of bike. Usually a suspension does two things. It makes for a more comfortable ride by absorbing quick shocks from the terrain by acting as a low frequency filter, transferring energy to the frame/rider over a longer period of time. The other job of the suspension is to keep the wheels in contact with the ground. The place where a trials bike is different is there are times we want the suspension to unleash its stored energy quickly for wheel hops and zaps. So tuning the suspension is a compromise no matter how you do it. The first thing I try to do with any suspension work is get the front and rear working together. I'm amazed how many times I get on a bike and the front or rear will sink down almost to the end of its travel and the other suspension will barely move. A bike moving through a rock field with a mismatched suspension will go through rapid geometry changes that make it difficult to stay on the bike let alone hold a line. A mismatched suspension will also cause the wheels to be suddenly loaded and unloaded making traction very unpredictable. If you find that you're tooling along just fine and suddenly a wheel slips it's not always a matter of technique or terrain. Usually I'll back off the damping and set the preload of the front and rear springs so pressure on the pegs moves the front and rear suspensions equally. This provides a starting point and rider preference for how stiff or soft the suspension can be set from there. I then adjust the damping based on riding style. Less damping for a more active trick rider and more damping for us sedate old guys who get one hop in the parking lot and think we're Jordi Tarres. Another critical setup issue for traction is jetting the bike. Aside from causing the rear wheel to break traction just from too much power an uneven response from the engine loads and unloads the suspension in an unpredictable way. I learned this when I had a '95 Beta with the Del'Orto carb. At the time it was a new carb and getting jets for it was impossible so I had to run the factory jetting. Unfortunately the carb came with a pilot jet that was far too rich. To compensate for the pilot jet the needle was set all the way lean. The result was a bike that seemed to run OK and made lots of power but the delivery was all wrong. It would bog at low throttle then all of a sudden at a little over 1/4 throttle the bike would suddenly get real interested in the proceedings and take off like a scalded cat. I had an awful time finding traction on any slippery, bumpy terrain especially up hill. Steps were real problems too as it was impossible to time hits and I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tombo46 Posted April 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2008 Gotcha, bike is an 08 gasgas 300 and has the standard suspension set up. im not up on suspension so will have to get someone to take a look at it, the bike does feel good suspension wise though, a hell of alot better than my old beta! Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan williams Posted April 30, 2008 Report Share Posted April 30, 2008 Ah a GasGas 300 is going to require a somewhat more aggressive style then the Beta just to keep up with it. I find that because of the lightness of the rear end on GasGas Pros I have a hard time finding traction when I take a putt on my friend's bikes. They seem to get along just fine though so it may be just a style thing as you get used to the new bike. I think you're going to need to get used to riding the rear wheel a lot more. It may sound trite but it may be worth watching how the local experts ride their GasGas'. Really observe how they attack obstacles as far as body position and listen to their engines. It may show you places where you have to adjust your technique for the new bike. Also have a look at their setups as far as bar placement and how their suspension is setup. Even though it's a new bike doesn't mean its proper right out of the crate. I've spent the last four weeks tinkering with the setup of my '08 Rev3 and it's now at the point where I'm willing to say it's close to perfect for me. I probably could have done it in a week if I had a riding area nearby but such is life. Don't be afraid to make suspension/jetting/setup changes. Just do it with a little thought behind it and you'll be OK. It always good to have experienced help though, preferably a knowledgeable dealer who is also a rider. The payoff for knowing your bike inside and out is a big boost in your confidence level and if you tuned it yourself you will be much more attuned to the machine's needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzralphy Posted June 18, 2008 Report Share Posted June 18, 2008 I often use a quick tap of the clutch to stop a spinning rear wheel on technical hill climbs. I tend to leave the throttle setting and tap the clutch then slowly feed it back out with the new found traction. It is also useful for lowering a rising front wheel on the same climb. I spend a long time adjusting the clutch - one finger only, shortie leavers, bleed it properly, and adjust it right in so the bite point is just off the your other fingers being squashed. Slow your shock down to gain a little more traction on wet days (it never rains in NZ so we have our shocks set fast ) Hummmm... tip time... watch out that the new bike doesn't end up the same as the beta. Measure the sag of the bike at both ends when you are stood on the bike. Write this sag on your shed wall and check you bike against it every 3mths. Springs sag and loose some of their height so keep on top of them. Grease linkages often to keep the suspension active and have the shock serviced every 1-2 years - you will get more control and thus more traction. Ralphy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve Posted June 18, 2008 Report Share Posted June 18, 2008 I really need to improve on the basic stuff like finding grip. Then get rid of the 300 Gas Gas built for world round sections and world class riders and buy a bike you can handle. Sorry to be harsh but you shouldn't be on the bike until you have mastered, as you put it "the basic stuff like finding grip." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grindrod Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 Then get rid of the 300 Gas Gas built for world round sections and world class riders and buy a bike you can handle.Sorry to be harsh but you shouldn't be on the bike until you have mastered, as you put it "the basic stuff like finding grip." It is true that many riders 'over bike' themselves, get yourself booked in for a schooling session with Steve Saunders, I did one a couple of weeks ago and I learnt a lot, and I am 50! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motofire Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 Good question! Heres what I have learned....aside from bike setup which you already have great suggestions. I took a traction class at TTC with Jim Z-?????. Great class. RCIII was also there. They demonstarted that when traction is bad people will leave there bike in a low gear and use the throttle to control wheelspin. They demonstrated that this was very ineffective and difficult. RCIII on a 125 showed that by putting the bike in 3rd gear and revving it up(make sure to clean your bike out before going into a section), it was much easier to control the rear wheel spin than using the throttle. Also...the clutches on these bikes work better when revving that low RPM's. I tried this on my Sherco 2.9 and was very happy. Low traction...hign revs in 3rd gear I could really control the rear wheel. You paid for the clutch you might as well use it. Weight on the rear tire obviously gets you traction. So lean back...but to go a step further put your toes on the pegs and push your heel towards the ground...so that your ankle is flexed and your toes pointing up. Its awkward at first but the traction you get is incredible. Think light front wheel. In fact if I am doing a muddy event I will put white tape on my hadlebars and in black ink I will write "Light Front" to remind me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinell Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 'Burning' through the mud in a high gear won't work in all situations - it might be fine at the bottom of a hill going straight up but you'll be eating sheep **** if you try it on a greasy camber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 (edited) It is true that many riders 'over bike' themselves, get yourself booked in for a schooling session with Steve Saunders, I did one a couple of weeks ago and I learnt a lot, and I am 50! I didn't used agree with the 'over biked' theory because i used to ride a 300 gas gas, 290 Sherco at novice/inter level. I found running then a higher gear (forth gear) would calmed the bike down and it would blast me out of the section. However, there is no skill in riding higher gears just for the sake of not getting stuck in mud, a higher gear meant fast running in the sections, which didn't normally land me in trouble on novice/inter sections; but as i progressed more technical skill was required. So i now ride a 250 rather than 290 or 300. If i were slimmer i'd ride a 200, but a 250 is perhaps even to much because i find it difficult to not ride using the clutch. Edited June 19, 2008 by spud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motofire Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 (edited) 'Burning' through the mud in a high gear won't work in all situations - it might be fine at the bottom of a hill going straight up but you'll be eating sheep **** if you try it on a greasy camber Thats what I though too...some examples may be exaggerated for explanation. Point was that better control comes through the clutch. Edited June 19, 2008 by motofire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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