Stop Or No Stop?

[gizza5]

This topic has been discussed several times with people having many opinions and all with there for's and againsts, but which one is more challenging to the rider ???

I see it this way:

STOP - gives the rider, albeit with a time limit at the higher level of our sport, within reason enough time to assess a difficult part of the section allowing him to hop and skip to get him back on line, certainly a great skill for the few that can do it and walking the section you don't have to be inch perfect everywhere as you can stop and hop back on line to get you out of some trouble if you get it slightly wrong.

NO STOP - gives the rider one chance and one chance only to get his line right, get it wrong there is no second chance so there is a definate skill when walking the section to pick your lines and try and stay on them.

Both have there individual skill???

A NO STOP example is having watched the SSDT this year I would say that DL picked his lines on the sections Inch perfect, however, at Gorton I beleive only 2 people cleaned the bottom 2 subs Ben Hemmingway and Richard Timperley being inch and line perfect with DL taking a prod or two having got off line. Certainly I think No Stop is a more level playing field for the majority.

On the flip side at the top level the riders that have the better trick riding ability I think tend to come out on top. This narrows the playing field greatly

This is not a which rules are best post, but which is more skillfull and challenging?

[swooshdave]

Without a doubt, no stop is far more challenging. You can go ahead and close this topic for discussion. Thank you.

[atomant]

Without a doubt, no stop is far more challenging. You can go ahead and close this topic for discussion. Thank you.

Couldn't disagree with you more.

If the WTC sections were modified (and eased) to ride non-stop, there would be many more people in the world who could ride them. As it stands, there are really only 2 (maybe 3) people in the world with a chance of winning the FIM WTC as it stands.

The skill (and balls) to ride the FIM WTC at the top level is way way ahead

The main man has said himself that it shouldn't go back to non-stop. I wonder why?

[swooshdave]

I was, of course, being facetious. This is one of the more controversial topics in all of trials (aside from what color to paint your Xispa...)

Who said that you modify the sections so that anyone can do them? I'm surprised that you doubt that the trial masters couldn't set up a challenging enough no-stop course.

The main man? Did The Pope weigh in on this one?

Couldn't disagree with you more.

If the WTC sections were modified (and eased) to ride non-stop, there would be many more people in the world who could ride them. As it stands, there are really only 2 (maybe 3) people in the world with a chance of winning the FIM WTC as it stands.

The skill (and balls) to ride the FIM WTC at the top level is way way ahead

The main man has said himself that it shouldn't go back to non-stop. I wonder why?

[scorpa3]

I don't care anymore. I just wish we had fewer sets of rules.

[fivemeister]

I can't hop. If I stop for more than a couple of seconds, its because Im off line and frantically scrapping to regain my balance before I resume to continue getting a five. Please don't give me a five before I properly deserve one a few moments later. Thanks.

PS

The pope is not even close to being 'the main man' ever. I have never seen him on a trials bike.

PPS

Whisky is nice. Hic.

[dgraf]

let me see if I have this correct.

if I ride my 1974 TY 250 in the twinshock class I can't stop or I will get a five.(I thought trials was about balance?).

But if I ride my 1974 TY 250 in the modern class I can hop,shop until I drop in the section( hoping that I can

clean that section) I will get a "clean" or a zero. If you are brave enough(or just dumb like me) to stop in a

section and balance to do whatever I think it should be allowed. You can always make any section impossible to clean for any skill level rider. Besides, you wanna see wild a$$ riding Try and ride the twinshocker in

the expert level or modern class! gives a whole new meaning to finesse!

just my 2 cents,cuz it is the age old debate

Thanks guys

[atomant]

Shame a few more peeps haven't waded into this. The entertainment value would have been great

[gizza5]

let me see if I have this correct.

I thought trials was about balance?).

Good point, and that works both ways, some of the old twin shock videos recentlly the skill of the riders hanging on reluctant to have that dab where most people would be scootering, likewise the balance of Mr Bou and Co. hopping on the back wheel has its skill.

[steveo]

Im in AA.

Looks like it is always the fat ar$e$ and the stay at home and make sections in their back yard whingers that want no stoppy rules.

The reason is of course they are to lazy to go out and practise or are to busy polishing their new bike that they dont want to practise on so it wont get scratched or dirty.

Trouble is if they got their way and had no stoppy you would never hear the end of them whinging about how hard it is for them with their arthritis or friggin gout,they would think of something to go on about..

Truth is if they learnt how to do a basic stop and balance they could utilise this new found skill in a section and have a planned stop and compose themselves on trial day, probably get confident enough to have chat to the observer on how much his riding style is looking like Sammy or some other old timer from before the war,

I dont care which rule you use cause I dont ride your wet slippery bleak cold trials anyway.

[bikespace]

Im in AA.

Looks like it is always the fat ar$e$ and the stay at home and make sections in their back yard whingers that want no stoppy rules.

I fit the first category and R2W fits the second category and we're both happy with hopping and bopping

[feetupfun]

I reckon when it comes to the twinshock bikes, there are some that are much more suited to stopping than others, mainly due to action of the clutch. When the twinshock bikes were made, the rules penalised stopping, so it didn't matter what the clutch was like and those bikes were not at a disadvantage.

Here in OZ, almost all twinshock competition riding is to modern, stopping-allowed rules.

By allowing stopping, the bikes with suitable clutches for stop type riding have become more popular than the others. My concern is that there are lots of twinshocks that are not being used in competition, due to their being at a disadvantage under stopping-allowed rules.

I enjoy riding both non-stop and stop type trials equally, but would love to see more variety in the range of bikes being ridden in twinshock class so would be happy to ride twinshock as non-stop all the time if that would make a difference.

[bikespace]

When the twinshock bikes were made, the rules penalised stopping, so it didn't matter what the clutch was like and those bikes were not at a disadvantage.

I know what you mean, but remember the early 80's when - not only were you allowed to stop, you were actually allowed to roll backwards as long as your feet were on the pegs. The only time you got a 5 for stopping was if your foot was on the floor.

I don't remember when these rules came in or went out, but they were alive for a long time while it was all twinshock.

Edited May 30, 2008 by bikespace

[feetupfun]

I know what you mean, but remember the early 80's when - not only were you allowed to stop, you were actually allowed to roll backwards as long as your feet were on the pegs. The only time you got a 5 for stopping was if your foot was on the floor.

I don't remember when these rules came in or went out, but they were alive for a long time while it was all twinshock.

Yes you are right. The change to being allowed to stop/reverse without penalty till your foot went down did happen during the later part of the twinshock era. However being a certain age, the bikes I want to see used in competition are from an earlier time. One that springs to mind is the Cota 348. When I ride my 348 in events that are suited to stop-start riding, the 348 is hard work compared with the OSSA MAR, KT250 or any Yamaha, mainly due to the clutch action. We have a once-a-year event that is run to no-stop rules, and the 348 is just as easy to use and maybe even better than some of the others in those conditions. I'm not alone in choosing not to ride their 348 in events with modern rules, instead favouring a bike with a nice clutch. Part of it is to get a lower score, but mostly it is to be able to ride all day without being beaten up too much by the bike.

I suspect that in the UK, the sections that twinshock bikes are ridden in are generally more suitable for clutch out riding, so there may not be such a divide between the suitability of different bikes there.

[axulsuv]

I fit in the old guy class too ...! But I ride as much as possible in both no-stop events and modern events . I came back to riding trials after a 30+ year hiatus and bought and rebuilt my fantic axle to axle ... and it was the most modern trials bike I had ever ridden at the time !

The first event I rode was a modern event and I was shocked to get a 5 in a section for doing the one move I still had down pat from my youth,

A rollback to make a turn tighter ! It took me abit to understand that when I left trials in the mid 70's and that was the trickest tool in alot of folks kit (especially if you could do it quick enough and apply the rear brake , lighten the front end , then dump the clutch and turn it into a floater turn without actually ever stopping !) and now you can stop , hop , and balance and thats all ok ...

But it's all about fun at the level most of us here ride at anyway , so just be clear on the rules before you start ! And I do remember watching one of the champ riders playing after the event , he went up a beyond vertical rock face about 12 feet high , with hardly a approach at it and just landed on top on his back wheel and balanced for a moment while deciding where to go next ... I just had to ask the other folks watching

'at what point did gravity get taken out of the rules ?' The new generation is absolutely amazing to watch !!!!

Glenn