Stop Or No Stop?

[motovintage]

If only a few can truly master the technique to be competitive at top level, is it not defeating the whole object of trying to grow the sport.

I don't think so, any given motorcycle sport is almost always dominated by a few super tallented people, if you keep up with supercross for example, the top 3 or 4 riders usually lap the entire field in a 30 minute moto, does that hurt the sport or make it harder to grow, NO, it showcases the best tallent in the world, and allows the riders to do what they live for and get paid for doing it, do people who cant compete with Ricky or Chad hang it up since they cant race at that level, NO, if you make the playing field to even what you get is NASCAR > Boring!!

growing the sport is going to take more than switching the rules around, been there done that, it's my oppinion that in order to attract top tallent to trials it needs to be more lucrative for the riders, the money is there for the motocross guys, even at the local level a pro can make enough money to cover his expenses, so it's kinda a no brainer if you want to make a living using your riding skills trials is't the sport for you, people ride trials for the love of sport and a few lucky ones get to make a living at it.

[bullropebill]

I could go out on the track and ride round the same course as the top MX boys no problem, and I don't even ride MX, bike sales, spectators, and sponsorship make MX a different game, even fat Billybob in the stands wolfing down the double decker can vision himself riding round.

Looking up your own ass while hopping on the back wheel may be a tremendous fete, but it sure isn't selling more bikes, "WHAT THIS SPORT NEEDS IS MORE MONEY AND ADVERTISING" well it's all gone, dried up, Mr pockets got sweet FA for paying to promote his product, Mr Joe public, doesn't give sweet FA if the sport dies or not, which leaves Mr enthusiast, to try and keep the job afloat.

[scorpa3]

I could go out on the track and ride round the same course as the top MX boys no problem, and I don't even ride MX, bike sales, spectators, and sponsorship make MX a different game, even fat Billybob in the stands wolfing down the double decker can vision himself riding round.

Looking up your own ass while hopping on the back wheel may be a tremendous fete, but it sure isn't selling more bikes, "WHAT THIS SPORT NEEDS IS MORE MONEY AND ADVERTISING" well it's all gone, dried up, Mr pockets got sweet FA for paying to promote his product, Mr Joe public, doesn't give sweet FA if the sport dies or not, which leaves Mr enthusiast, to try and keep the job afloat.

Sadly.... you've summed it up quite well there.

[stevec]

I don't think so, any given motorcycle sport is almost always dominated by a few super tallented people, if you keep up with supercross for example, the top 3 or 4 riders usually lap the entire field in a 30 minute moto, does that hurt the sport or make it harder to grow, NO, it showcases the best tallent in the world, and allows the riders to do what they live for and get paid for doing it, do people who cant compete with Ricky or Chad hang it up since they cant race at that level, NO, if you make the playing field to even what you get is NASCAR > Boring!!

It's one thing to lap the field and entirely another if the track is so challenging/dangerous that only a top few riders can even ride it. If the majority of motocross riders couldn't compete by the same rules and on the same types of tracks as the big guys, interest and money would dry up.

[atomant]

Atom, I have to ask, how many trials have you ridden this year, and are your replies based on what you want and think are the best for the sport, or what you here Ross talking about?.

My comments are based on what I see, what I hear and what I read. They are my humble opinions (hence the 'in my humble opinion' IMHO) which I put after a lot my posts.

In relation to skill between the 2 types, there is absolutely no doubt that modern riding is more skilful - IMHO of course

[ikb]

In North Yorkshire we have long sections with big rocks and steps with observers who give out 5s if you look like you may stop in the next few miles!!!

Its just how it should be

[bigfoot]

In relation to skill between the 2 types, there is absolutely no doubt that modern riding is more skilful - IMHO of course

B*****ks, I know guys who can jump, hop, reverse, balance for hours et cetera but still stuggle to get up a fairly stiff section that guys who can do little of the former just clean easily. Obviously there are guys the opposite. Which one has more skill? Very difficult to say it depends what you're trying to do surely. Even I think I'm more skilled than some guys who are good tricksters but know tricksters who are better than me and I'm not a great rider by any means. IMHO it's the same level of skill just shown in a different way.

Again I'll repeat my previous point, the top guys and girls are highly skill no matter what type of sections are being riden and the rest of us aren't. Everyone has strengths and weaknesses though. Its just that most of us have have more of the later.

[slapshot 3]

Christ..did someone mention rules.......Sh!t, thats what i've been doing wrong all these f**king years

The old chestnut but always springs some lively debate (..and let's face it, there's some right de..baters on here ) . There are so many trials out there these days that there is something there for everyone, personally prefer no stop, because if I stop I'm gonna fall over, usually painfully. However, I really admire the cojones of some of the top riders and some of the stuff they'll tackle, it takes some confidence in your own skills to do it.

Maybe that's part of it, confidence and where the rules argument always rolls out the, Hoppers are the ones who are confident in their ability to do that kind of stuff; the no stoppers are the ones who don't have the nads to try that eight foot step. Remember there are dozens of brilliant coc's who lay every kind of trial on every weekend usually within a reasonable travelling distance, get out and support em.

I disagree that no stop will die out because these snotty hopping kids will become fat, knackered, sad old B**tards like the rest of us sh!t scared to break body or bike every Sunday and want something that bit more straightforward.....all my own humble opinion of course....

You back in Korea Bigfoot????

[copemech]

I will tip another pint to the last two posts! A skillfull rider will still beat you!

Lots of banter about this in the Scottish, and I do believe the rule is basically applied properly!

And although I have only ridden trials THIS decade, we did have a bout ov no-stop here, I did not appreciate overzealous judjes who would % you in a blink for a hesitation before a step or something, still leaves a bad taste!

Of course, I feel the same way about Gate Trials, where one dab and you are done! I am just like a good dog! I like to leave a mark in every section, sometimes just out of habit!

[gizza5]

There are so many trials out there these days that there is something there for everyone.

There is....................but do you actually know what rules they adopt until you actually get there?

Yes you could phone up and ask, only a handful may do that but it is doubtful?

You could ask the observer at the first section, ''9/10 they will look at you blankley'' because they havn't got a clue about one rule or another they will just count dabs, some have a better understanding. Fair play for them to pick up an obserers board as it is a thankless task, especially when you get the irate rider telling you what there sore actually was?

Or you just turn up and ride, like the majority and see the scores later in the week and ain't too bothered? but still rant and rave about only dropping 'X' on one section and not the score you actually got. This works both ways as some observers are lenient and your score may be less than you thought?

This is slightly off topic but still a good debate

I nowadays prefer 'No stop' and get away with murder in some sections for a dodgy '3', which is very, very skillfull

[bigfoot]

You back in Korea Bigfoot????

I am. With some time on my hands I've been doing some video work. Keep an eye on the SSDT forum.... news coming in the next hour.

[atomant]

B*****ks, I know guys who can jump, hop, reverse, balance for hours et cetera but still stuggle to get up a fairly stiff section

I am sure you do, but as an example, how many guys do you know who could compete in the BTC never mind the WTC.

Compare that with how many peeps who could compete in the SSDT (or something similar).

I would argue that if something is harder to do than something else, then by definition, it must require more skill to do it.

[gizza5]

I am sure you do, but as an example, how many guys do you know who could compete in the BTC never mind the WTC.

Compare that with how many peeps who could compete in the SSDT (or something similar).

In your own words there are loads of people out there that are not capable of riding the WTC or the BTC.....= Small percentage

and there are a few more people that think they are capable of riding the SSDT......... = Bigger percentage

then there's a whole load more that are not capable of any of the above..........= Huge percentage

Now at club level which rules should we adopt?

[zippy]

GIZZA5 Posted Today, 03:35 PM

QUOTE (AtomAnt @ Jun 4 2008, 06:55 PM) *

I am sure you do, but as an example, how many guys do you know who could compete in the BTC never mind the WTC.

Compare that with how many peeps who could compete in the SSDT (or something similar).

In your own words there are loads of people out there that are not capable of riding the WTC or the BTC.....= Small percentage

and there are a few more people that think they are capable of riding the SSDT......... = Bigger percentage

then there's a whole load more that are not capable of any of the above..........= Huge percentage

Now at club level which rules should we adopt?

I do believe that the current discussion is which style is harder, not which rules should be adopted.

Personal Opinion: the Stop Hop, no room room to make a turn, balance then throw self and bike at huge obstacle is harder.

For example: In MOTA events The Lower classes, Novice line and majority of Intermediate lines can be ridden no stop, Majority of upper classes, Advanced and Expert lines require hopping and bopping. therefore stop and hop harder, requires more skill.

As far as rules adopted for mere mortals:

Stop balance, Acceptable. (skill required)

Stop foot down is failure (5) (Your leg is a kickstand)

Just my opinion.

[perce]

http://www.trialscentral.com/forums/index....mp;#entry167945

So, how many times does he 5 this section? Then, how many observers would 5 him?