So Are Quiet Trials Bikes A Thing Of The Past?

[ridgrunr]

One of the selling issues I always used when approaching land owners for potential riding areas was how quiet Trials bikes were...and they were. That always boded well when I was showing trials videos to the land owners. BLM really liked that. None of my two stroke Fantics, Beta's or GAS GASES were loud. I could ride in the back yard and the neighbors usually didn't know I was out there. The two strokes were the quietest motorized competition machines on wheels. That helped keep us less hated in the woods too with the other types of recreation. Can't use that argument now days though. The Montesa can hurt your ears even though it has a silencer that looks like it came off a a John Deere. Haven't heard a Beta, Scorpa, Sherco or GAS GAS 4 strokes other than the videos. In the video the GAS GAS 4 banger sounded like it could be loud too. Do the four strokes have to be loud to produce any power?

Also, typically it takes a 350cc or better four stroke to produce the power of a 250cc Two stroke. I've heard the Montesa Bou is riding is almost 400cc. Is that true?

[bobtlr]

It is not so that a 4 stroke has to be noisy,

the honda tlr is the quitest bike out there i think (on the stock exhaust) and the beta rev 4 is quite silent too cota 4 rt 2007 onwards whit restrictors in it is not that noisy as it was 2005 - 2006 mod.

but you are right less noise is beter for the survival of the sport.

regards bob

[firstgear]

Noise is a big issue in our club. I know that personally the two events a year my club puts on would come to a stop if the bikes were loud.

So far the only "loud" bike I have heard is the Montesa 4rt when it is uncorked.

The Beta 4T is very quiet and the new Sherco 4T seems to be not as offensive as the 4RT when opened up.

Personally I believe that all motorcycle manufactures have gone thru great pains to design a quiet yet functional exhaust for all off road bike in general.

I also believe that they (the manufacturers) realize that the more riding land that is lost new bike sales may strongly be affected in a negative way.

It is up to the clubs to enforce some typ of "common sence noise enforcement" at the local events.

If someone shows up with a uncorked 4RT at a local event then they need to put the baffles back in before they can ride.

No high tech equipment should be needed to test for noise.. If it sounds loud then it is loud.

If the clubs do not say something then the neighbors sure will and thats when it could get ugly!

At our event we have had as many as 65 - 70 trials bikes at once running around the farm and the property owners on each side never heard a thing. One

even asked if we had a bike show cause he saw the bikes coming into the property but never heard any run....so he thought it must of been some kind of show?

[02-apr]

I had a go recently on a Rev 4 and exhaust wise it was very like the TLR that I rode in a trial last year so yes it can be done. I suspect that you would have difficulty in persuading the average rambler that the 2007 Cota, that has a very slight edge knocked off the exhaust note compared with earlier models, is any quieter than its predecessors let alone "not that noisy".

But then what is the point in forcing manufacturers to fit quiet exhausts when anyone, including those manufacturers, can make and sell loud ones to replace them. The sport's authorities don't seem to care - I haven't seen a noise meter at a trial since my Fantic 200 days. I have to admit though that, as I once experienced, having over 100 cold two strokes rev up to do a noise test in the middle of a village early on a Sunday morning probably did not convince the locals that the ACU was overly concerned about public perception.

I was told at an environmental seminar by the guy in charge that "Motocross, by which he meant the manufacturers, is not interested in noise limits". This just seems to be accepted by the organising bodies. He also made the point that when motocross disappears as a result of this trials will go with it. Sounds logical enough to me.

Another revelation at the seminar was that some mobile phones now incorporate noise meters so potentially any passer by could get a reading and use it against us, even if it has not been taken under the prescribed conditions with properly calibrated equipment.

I believe that there can be too much reliance on meter readings, we need bikes that sound quiet to the ear not to a machine. I think my Beta is a bit loud at tickover but have no idea what it measures at. Can't we be given the chance to find out at an "open day" with the official meter?

[madcr500]

As a few of you will know i have a CR500 motard on the road and that is VERY LOUD. I have to fit an end can that the bike will barely run at all on just to pass the yearly MOT. I have always been a fan of louder is better BUT . . . . . I have to agree with Ridgrunr on this. Quieter bikes mean we dont get hassled as much for enjoying our sport and give us more opportunities to ride in more places.

Our sport is under serious threat from the greenies. Moto-X (which i have loved since i was a kid) will, I fear, die out in the next 20 years (or sooner) and trials will go with it unless we can make people understand the difference. Showing something on TV would be a start (bring back kickstart ) just anything to make people see what a trials bike is about. When i have asked farmers for permission to use land they think i want to tear around on their plowed fields. One i asked said a piece of woodland i asked about was unrideable. "Nooo, you couldnt get bike through there". It was actually ideal. A bit mild actually (even for me). He thought i wanted to do moto cross on it. I even turned up on my trials bike to ask another guy and he said "thats a funny looking scrambler".

Everyone has forgotten what trials is and so we get lumped with moto-X and that means we have to distance ourselves from it anyway we can. Having quiet bikes is the most obvious difference we can hope for.

Can't we be given the chance to find out at an "open day" with the official meter?

Thats a great idea and i would love to see the results of modern stuff like the 4RT's compared to pre 65 but it might just draw unwanted attention to the subject.

[johnkennedy]

the sherco 4 stroke makes such a noise when revving down, the popping (back fiering) is so loud it hurt my ears at a distance of over 12 feet. anyone who has heard this knows that it is well above the recomended limits. but this did happen at a brittish round where the high revs are really needed

the beta rev 4 sounds like a sewing machine (possibly a hand blender), haven't heard them revved up much but the are very reasonable.

the montesa's are ok if people leave the bl00dy final restrictor. they dont realise that it is there for a reason, if it wasnt supposed to be there it woudnt be put there by montesa. as for the other restrictors, they are to relive back-pressure and make the bike more efficent, it is very irresposable to remove these in order to just make your bike seem powerful.

the 2 stroke models seem fine, the new beta 2 stroke seems to pop rythmicaly more than tick over, anyone who has head this knows what i am talking about. but it may well be a little loud(for a ticking over bike), its not really loud when being reved up though.

agreed about the point of the bikes being reved up in the carpark, near houses. so why not give the meters to the clerk of the course and he could stop bikes in the moors of wooded areas (possibly not standard conditions) and he can do it there. or an observer may well be able to do it. that may well be a strange thought but our trials usualy have at least a the best part of a mile of moorlands and mostly there is not a house to be seen (unless we are in kinlochleven)

[axulsuv]

QUIET IS GOOD !!!!!

and thats all I've got to say about that ...

Glenn (grumpy old guy )

[for artie]

One of the selling issues I always used when approaching land owners for potential riding areas was how quiet Trials bikes were...and they were. That always boded well when I was showing trials videos to the land owners. BLM really liked that. None of my two stroke Fantics, Beta's or GAS GASES were loud. I could ride in the back yard and the neighbors usually didn't know I was out there. The two strokes were the quietest motorized competition machines on wheels. That helped keep us less hated in the woods too with the other types of recreation. Can't use that argument now days though. The Montesa can hurt your ears even though it has a silencer that looks like it came off a a John Deere. Haven't heard a Beta, Scorpa, Sherco or GAS GAS 4 strokes other than the videos. In the video the GAS GAS 4 banger sounded like it could be loud too. Do the four strokes have to be loud to produce any power?

Also, typically it takes a 350cc or better four stroke to produce the power of a 250cc Two stroke. I've heard the Montesa Bou is riding is almost 400cc. Is that true?

Bou rides a 300cc 4 stroke. Raga rides a 300cc 2 stroke. Most statements that begin with the phrase " I've heard" are usually of dubious veracity.

Beta has done a great job making a quiet 4T .

The Sherco 4T is not bad, I have not heard the 2008 model. The Scorpa is OK too.

From the videos the GasGas shovelhead seems to make more mechanical noise than exhaust sound.

The Montesa 2005 & 2006 are OK, but some idiots feel the need to remove all the restrictors. The 2007-2008 4RT is good and it is more tamper resistant. Removal of the first restrictor is OK, but nothing more.

Edited July 4, 2008 by for artie

[neonsurge]

It was a mistake for Honda to refer to them as "restrictors" in the first place. That just encourages the "I'm a real man, I can handle it, I don't need no steenkin' restrictors" mentality and suddenly trials are full of ear-splitting 4RTs. If they'd called them "power plates" none of this would have happened

As has been discussed many times on here, the 2-stroke vs. 4-stroke "loudness" debate is a red herring. It's all about frequency and even if a 4RT measures slightly lower than, say, a Beta 270 in terms of dB at 5 meters (or whatever the regulation distance is), it's the 4RT that'll be heard half a mile away. Low frequencies penetrate solid objects and travel further. Ye cannae change the laws of physics.

[zippy]

here in the states there is a lot of debate and scrutiny of off road noise. Whether it be trials, moto x, quads. Also much watching of road bikes' noise. (I hate it when somebody puts straight pipes on a Harley, but that may be a different debate)

I really like a quiet bike, within reason I still want to hear the "motorcycleness" of it.

I like my cars and trucks quiet.

And yes Neonsurge is correct the 4 stroke is heard farther away because of the lower frequency.

My biggest complaint is that the people that are so fired up about us motor heads making noise out in the woods or at a designated race track or off road park, or practicing one or two bikes on our own property during normal daylight hours are the same people that do one or more of the following.

Have really booming bass systems in their cars.

Sit outside with the radio playing as loud as possible so they can hear it at the opposite side of the lawn where they are raking leaves or whatever.

Have a "tuner car" with that "Scoobie Burble".

Fire up some sort of heavy equipment at midnight. (don't laugh have experienced this first hand)

Has an outdoor party with a DJ or band that plays really loud until 2 am. (this one was just last week)

Have a car with a loud exhaust.

Have a "garage" band that is practicing super loud.

My point is that we as humans make noise, noise is everywhere. Yes we need to reduce the noises that can be reduced but EVERYBODY needs to realize that if they have the freedom to make the noise they are making they should not complain about the noise others are making.

I am tired of the mentality that "I am more important than everyone else so if I don't like what you do you have to stop. otherwise I will get the law involved. But I can do whatever I want"

And as time goes on with more people being on the planet and living closer together these problems are only going to get worse.

OK rant over.

[neonsurge]

Back when I had a 4-stroke enduro bike I used to frequent ThumperTalk (a very good, friendly site and I notice that they've now got a trials form too). TT is kind of the opposite of TC in terms of membership - it's predominantly US-oriented with a few Brits and Europeans and a while ago the noise issue was debated at very great length over there. The discussion was pretty much the same as we've had on here apart from one specific exclusion kept popping up: Harley-Davidsons. Something along the lines of "Yeah, of course all bikes need to be quiter blah blah.... except Harleys" at which point almost everyone went "Oh yes, except Harleys of course!"

Now I understand that a Harley is an American icon and all that and I guess lots of people in the UK might think about the original Bonneville or Gold Star in the same way (and I'm NOT having a pop at America here - it's just the most memorable example that I could come up with) but people need to understand that the general public doesn't make a distinction between a leather-clad forty-something on a hog and a guy on a trials bike. They're all perceived to be noisy dirty motorcycles and therefore an easy target for the environmental lobbyists because popular support for the closure of riding areas is practically guaranteed.

Edited July 4, 2008 by neonsurge

[axulsuv]

And as usual here in the states at least , noise laws , although in place , rarely , if ever get enforced ... And yes I mean the STUPID A$$ thumping car stereos that you can feel in your own car or home and the producer of the low frequency sound waves is a 1/4 mile away !!! Or the straight piped , ape hanger handlebared harley that speeds thru residential neighborhoods at whatever speed they deem appropriate at anytime of day or night ... Now don't get me wrong , I LOVE music and I like the occasional harley , But why are some folks egos ? so fragile that they have to have all this Hey I'm loud and obnoxious !!! so look at MEEE!!!! mentality ... What's the point ???

I vented , now I feel better !

Glenn

[swooshdave]

The Harley is iconic, the sound is patented.

Then there is the philosophy that "loud pipe save lives". This probably make less sense in civilized countries where motorcycles are commonplace and the car drivers are more accustomed to looking for them.

That is not always the case in the US. Sometimes (most of the time) a driver won't know a bike is there unless they hear it.

So that's the theory.

Sportbikes are less concerned as they can actually maneuver out of the way unlike their larger cousins...

[zippy]

swooshdave Posted Today, 10:49 AM

The Harley is iconic, the sound is patented.

Then there is the philosophy that "loud pipe save lives". This probably make less sense in civilized countries where motorcycles are commonplace and the car drivers are more accustomed to looking for them.

That is not always the case in the US. Sometimes (most of the time) a driver won't know a bike is there unless they hear it.

So that's the theory.

Sportbikes are less concerned as they can actually maneuver out of the way unlike their larger cousins...

First of all the majority of the noise is behind the motorcycle therefore if you don't know the bike is there until you hear it then it is too late.

Secondly, US drivers MUST be better informed and trained to look for those on bikes, horses, walking, and bicycles.. etc. our drivers training is extremely lacking in this respect. Also the predominate attitude of US drivers is "I am most important you move out of my way" But the attitude should be "we share the road"

Third if you are riding ANY type of motorcycle and are unable to maneuver out of a situation or maintain control of the machine you have absolutely NO business on a road bike.

Fourth the Harley is iconic, the SOUND may be patented but the VOLUME needs to be toned down. There is no valid argument as to why it is acceptable for one machine to be louder than the rest that are on the road.

I may sound grumpy and bitter but honestly I don't care what you ride or what your hobby is but the laws and expectations need to be equal across the board.

[ice]

Another vote for quiet machines. Thats one of the reasons I have shifted towards Trials. I have a WR450 that I have bought special quieting exhaust tips and it is quiet for a dirt bike, but still too loud. I ride many multi-use trails and you see other trail users surprise when you approach and pass quietly and respectfully. There faces go from a grimace when they first see you coming to a near smile as you pass queitly.

I have a small section/trail on my property and would like to make my 280 Edition even quieter. I repacked the muffler, but it is still just a tad too loud. How much difference does the density of the muffler packing make? The repack kit I bought was fairly dense- I know that makes it last longer, but would it quiet down if I used more loose packing? Any other ideas on what reduces noise?