'07 300 Pro New, But Blown Up

[rodjackson]

Hello everyone:

I am looking at a new 2007 TXT 300 Pro (homologated) that seized up during the dealer prep. Apparently, the dealer did not get the throttle cable seated and it revved to the moon until it seized. It has been fitted with a new piston and the dealer will warranty it for 3 months. Is there anything I should look into or be concerned with on such a bike? Could there have been lower end damage? What should I expect to have to pay for such a bike?

Thanks!

Rod

[ishy]

Rod, way too much bike for you lad, if your keen on a gasser, go for a 200.

And get thi sad ass up to Lolo pass Sep 6th & 7th.

Edited August 4, 2008 by ishy

[tombo46]

I have a 300, and I wouldnt say it would be too much for anyone, ive also ridden the 200 and can say its a fantastic bike but it has no resale value!

Tom

[steve]

Crikey, that's a tricky one.

Firstly how slow was the dealer that he couldn't hit the kill switch before it siezed! I bet we've all started our bikes at one time or another with the cable unseated after a crash - I certainly have on many occasions - however it only takes a second to kill the engine. I have seen engines carry on screaming even with spark plug caps removed as carbon etc.. glows and kind of provides it's own ignition. The only thing to do is turn off the petrol and wait!! This would not happen to a new engine.

I wonder if there is more to the strory than the dealer is letting on.

Components at risk of damage would be cylinder and piston, main bearings & crankshaft assy.

I am suprised the cylinder didn't incur any damage if the piston siezed in it. If you are really serious about buying it would the dealer be prepared to remove the cylinder head for inspection of the cylinder? It is not too big a job on a two stroke, if he refuses - why?

However if all checks out then I would expect to pay a bit more than a second hand model of the same age, after all the rest of the bike is 100%, so somewhere between the lowest new price for an old model and highest used price! I would imagine the dealer is selling a cost.

[steve]

I have a 300, and I wouldnt say it would be too much for anyone, ive also ridden the 200 and can say its a fantastic bike but it has no resale value!

Tom

This is advice from somebody who posted - "Does anyone have any tips (no matter how basic) for making the bike grip better in slippery conditions?"

[rodjackson]

I wanted to get a 200 or a 250, but I think I could get this one reasonably. If I have to pay full price, I couldn't afford the gas to get to Lolo Pass! Is there any way to tame the beast?

[jaylael]

I can't see any problem with you buying this bike, as long as you are prepared for the huge cost of repairs which are inevitable if you ride the bike more than twice a year. As I said at the last trial, watching those things go round brings a smile to my face because (for a mechanic) it's just like money in the bank.

[jse]

I have seen engines carry on screaming even with spark plug caps removed as carbon etc.. glows and kind of provides it's own ignition. The only thing to do is turn off the petrol and wait!!

As an aside to the advice others have given about this bike, on the topic, I thought I'd throw another "trick" out that someone showed me many years ago. A two-stroke Trials engine will often auto-ignite (for various reasons, not only carbon buildup, and turning off the fuel can make the carb go full-lean before running out, further spiking the combustion chamber temp) with the throttle stuck open and at high RPM's the killswitch will not work. The best way is to take a glove off and with the wadded glove in the other gloved hand, stop up the exhaust at the end of the muffler and when the RPM's come down, use the killswitch to stop the engine. This technique has saved many a stuck piston.

Hard to believe the dealer didn't check for the slide hitting bottom before startup. Heck, that's one of the two things we do when we sit on a new bike. Watch guys in a motorcycle showroom when they sit on a new bike, they (while imagining riding it) will work the levers and twist the throttle.....

Jon

[peterb]

Hi Rod,

Usual to damage the cylinder when these seize, best to have a look before buying. Also very likely to have damaged the big end at the same time. Have a feel of the big end! bearing to see if it rotates smoothly without the feeling of a thrupenny piece - what's that? a multi straight edged old UK coin, worth 3 pennies.

The bike is fine, lots of power but easily de-tuned if necessary, not a sharp power delivey.

Bye, PeterB.

[tombo46]

This is advice from somebody who posted - "Does anyone have any tips (no matter how basic) for making the bike grip better in slippery conditions?"

No need for that Steve, I was just giving an honest opinion as I do own and ride the bike he is looking at getting.

The bike I originally intended to buy was a 250 however I found that the only thing that was availiable at shirty's was 280's and 300's because they had no forks for the bikes. I was initially worried that the bike would be too much but found it to be perfect.

The reason I was asking for advice on finding grip is because my technique was wrong and it was letting me down in sections. If your technique is wrong, the best place to look is the basics, get them right and build it up from there, thats what I did and it worked.

Ive been riding 10 months and since I got the bike my skill level has changed alot, When I first got the bike (6 months ago) I was riding the white route at trials, and now I ride clubman or expert (depending on whether or not hopping is involved), I found the bike as easy to ride when I got it as I do at the level im at now.

you also said to be in my post about finding grip "Then get rid of the 300 Gas Gas built for world round sections and world class riders and buy a bike you can handle", since when was the 300 a pro's machine? Its the 280 thats the nasty one. Also, I had a Beta 250 before that and I was having trouble finding grip on that too, Maybe I should just go out and buy a 125? and If its still too much, maybe a TY80?

Just give it a rest, you seem to have some sort of a problem with me even when Im asking for advice and its not nessisary or appreciated.

Tom

[perce]

I seized a virtually brand new Gasser prior to the SSDT in 2005, p***ing about round the garden & reved it to clear it out, pop she stopped. Had the barrel honed & matched to a new piston. Turned out to be the best Gasser I ever had, had my best result round the SSDT & the bike ran great for the rest of the time I had it.

IF Ishy knows you & says you are over biking, he's right. If you must have a the 300 as the money is right, fit a thick base gasket, a flywheel weight & perhaps a long front pipe. Under no circumstances fit a keihin carb, the stock delorto is all you need.

Have you asked the dealer if he'll swap out the 300 barrel & piston for a 250 one instead? If he needs to shift it the deals up to you.

[bilc0]

Im trying to understand why he would tell you he seized it.

[jse]

Hello everyone:

I am looking at a new 2007 TXT 300 Pro (homologated) that seized up during the dealer prep. Apparently, the dealer did not get the throttle cable seated and it revved to the moon until it seized. It has been fitted with a new piston and the dealer will warranty it for 3 months. Is there anything I should look into or be concerned with on such a bike? Could there have been lower end damage? What should I expect to have to pay for such a bike?

Thanks!

Rod

Rod,

Maybe I'll throw another opinion in here for you to consider. If, in fact, the circumstances of the seizure are as the dealer describes, it appears to have the characteristics of a classic "cold start" seizure, where the piston skirt expands at a greater rate than the cylinder bore (the symptoms will be seizure marks in the four left/right, front/rear parts of the lower piston skirt). Trials engines have extremely close tolerances in the piston skirt/cylinder junction (which is why they need to "normalize" tolerances before riding to avoid excess start-up wear) and I'm guessing that the actual damage would be restricted to the parts that the dealer replaced. The engine may have "revved to the moon", but probably dropped in RPM's before locking up when combustion pressure was unable to overcome the piston/cylinder friction, so it was more like putting the brakes on the crank (friction=heat=more friction=more heat cycle) than hitting it with a hammer.

As I can't examine the engine, it's only a guess, but according to the dealer's story, the damage was probably localized.

Jon

[greg]

My 07 250 seized after being jet washed then highly revved to "dry it"(previous owner,who i know well).Whatever was needed was done ,it runs like a dream,only the cyl. head is a different colour as i'm told its acid dipped when being repaired and takes the paint off.

[steve]

No need for that Steve, I was just giving an honest opinion as I do own and ride the bike he is looking at getting.

The bike I originally intended to buy was a 250 however I found that the only thing that was availiable at shirty's was 280's and 300's because they had no forks for the bikes. I was initially worried that the bike would be too much but found it to be perfect.

The reason I was asking for advice on finding grip is because my technique was wrong and it was letting me down in sections. If your technique is wrong, the best place to look is the basics, get them right and build it up from there, thats what I did and it worked.

Ive been riding 10 months and since I got the bike my skill level has changed alot, When I first got the bike (6 months ago) I was riding the white route at trials, and now I ride clubman or expert (depending on whether or not hopping is involved), I found the bike as easy to ride when I got it as I do at the level im at now.

you also said to be in my post about finding grip "Then get rid of the 300 Gas Gas built for world round sections and world class riders and buy a bike you can handle", since when was the 300 a pro's machine? Its the 280 thats the nasty one. Also, I had a Beta 250 before that and I was having trouble finding grip on that too, Maybe I should just go out and buy a 125? and If its still too much, maybe a TY80?

Just give it a rest, you seem to have some sort of a problem with me even when Im asking for advice and its not nessisary or appreciated.

Tom

Tom, sorry about that. I stand by my opinion that a 300 Gasser is too much for a beginner but then that is only my opinion and what do I know! I have never seen you ride so shouldn't make judgements about your ability. I am pleased that you like your bike and well done for the progress you have made so far.