29r Posted August 16, 2008 Report Share Posted August 16, 2008 It was posted that rules changes were being submitted to the Governing body ( Twin shock/Drum Pre 1985) and those concerned should respond to their representatives in favor of the motion . Also that TLR's are not included . Well...Okay ....ITSA (yeah , okay pun intended ) start . Nothing ventured , nothing gained . I think with the new Trials Coordainator , that there can be improvement . But it takes your voice ! Thought's ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony283 Posted August 16, 2008 Report Share Posted August 16, 2008 It would seem the proposal was rejected again! The article that I wrote in my blog "That Twinshock Class", was I believe, submitted as the basis of the reasoning for the "New Class". Although we have not heard why it was rejected, YET AGAIN, it would seem that SOME think it would make Vintage sections HARDER and require another "SUPER LINE" to cater for these machines. That was not the intention of the proposal which was purely and simply to include the last of the twinshock machines who currently have NO National Championship and nowhere to ride and are being treated like illegal immigrants. With the high costs of fuel and travel the extra entries would swell the numbers at both regional and national events. The riders who do compete in our events either riding "Those Twinshocks" or modern "Monoshocks" have no complaints about riding "NO Stop Rules" and using either the 1 (Expert) 2 (Int) or 3 (Nov) lines depending on their ability. There was never a question or suggestion that priceless pieces of trialing heritage from the 50's and 60's would be asked to take on sections that were damaging to both rider and machine or that they would ever be in direct competition with the newer machines. You simply maintain the course layout and lines as they currently are and let the newer machines, ALL twinshocks post 1979 which included the Hondas, ride for a National Championship using 1,2 and 3 lines depending on their ability levels. one day, one day....... Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ishy Posted August 16, 2008 Report Share Posted August 16, 2008 It was posted that rules changes were being submitted to the Governing body ( Twin shock/Drum Pre 1985) and those concerned should respond to their representatives in favor of the motion . Also that TLR's are not included .Well...Okay ....ITSA (yeah , okay pun intended ) start . Nothing ventured , nothing gained . I think with the new Trials Coordainator , that there can be improvement . But it takes your voice ! Thought's ? Old trials riders don't embrace change, I rode one or two of the old AHRMA events on a modern twin shocker for fun. And my opinion, is! it's not really trials, more of a parade for old blokes to meet and show other old blokes, old iron. If AHRMA don't want to play, then it's no big deal, there are people out there that do. The modern classic or twinshock bike is more than capable of competing in today's US novice / intermediate lines, if I was wanting to put on a twinshock event, to attract riders and boost interest I would have two lines, and the event would be open to twin shock A and B, plus any modern bike rider who found those level of section enjoyable to ride. Isn't the idea to get people out on bikes having fun? just by putting one simple split marker in a section you can cater for four or more classes. I think the key is finding the difficulty levels of the majority of riders in each class, then stick to those levels for all events. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
for artie Posted August 16, 2008 Report Share Posted August 16, 2008 (edited) It was posted that rules changes were being submitted to the Governing body ( Twin shock/Drum Pre 1985) and those concerned should respond to their representatives in favor of the motion . Also that TLR's are not included .Well...Okay ....ITSA (yeah , okay pun intended ) start . Nothing ventured , nothing gained . I think with the new Trials Coordainator , that there can be improvement . But it takes your voice ! Thought's ? Where is it posted? I would like to read the proposal. I said it elsewhere... why no Reflex/TLR's? Edited August 16, 2008 by for artie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinshocked Posted August 16, 2008 Report Share Posted August 16, 2008 It was posted that rules changes were being submitted to the Governing body ( Twin shock/Drum Pre 1985) and those concerned should respond to their representatives in favor of the motion . Also that TLR's are not included .Well...Okay ....ITSA (yeah , okay pun intended ) start . Nothing ventured , nothing gained . I think with the new Trials Coordainator , that there can be improvement . But it takes your voice ! Thought's ? I been following this thread with interest. I am not an AHRMA member but I would like to send my thoughts to AHRMA. I wouild like to know why they are anti-twin shock. Putting many ability levels into a setion is not hard. I have ridden NATC Nationals and they get club riders and Pro riders into the same sections without hurting anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelmoore Posted August 16, 2008 Report Share Posted August 16, 2008 A few days ago I sent an email in support of adding the later bikes to the Western representatives that had email addresses listed by AHRMA and copied that to Ed Peacock. The AHRMA website (www.ahrma.org) has contact information listed there. A number of those later bikes don't look appreciably different from bikes within the Modern Classic cutoff (like a 79 vs 78 Sherpa T). Actually, as I pointed out to the AHRMA folks, there are Premier bikes being entered that look a LOT more modern than some of the "twinshock" bikes. People on those excluded bikes aren't going to be taking trophies away from people in other classes. It is still going to be up to the rider to make a successful run through a section, and if the 1 lines are too easy for someone on a twinshock, they can always find a modern trials club to ride with. " I would like to know why they are anti-twin shock." That would be interesting to know, wouldn't it? I think that overall AHRMA does a pretty good job of things, but they do get the occasional rule or stance that leaves me sorely puzzled. Those items can be either hugely restrictive or hugely lenient. For example in 250GP roadracing they say "Any of the following types of fully GP-kitted motorcycles built before December 31, 1968, and like design . . . . Benelli 250 four-cylinder, street-bike based replica". Excuse me, but the 254 Benelli/Guzzi/Motobi (I've seen them badged all three ways) didn't show up until 1976, there is no prior production 250/4 in the Benelli line up, and it doesn't share much of anything with the "quattro" works GP bikes other than number of cylinders. It is a neat little bike but clearly not a bike of the mid to late 1960s or a derivative of one, yet it is allowed to run. The one (or maybe two) that have shown up haven't proven to be very competitive, but it is still a modern bike that pushes period bikes behind it down one place in the results. This is pretty curious because the RR crowd often seems a lot tighter about eligibility than the MX or Trials folks. cheers, Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinshocked Posted August 17, 2008 Report Share Posted August 17, 2008 (edited) I guess it boils down to this. I don't like any club telling me that me and my bike are not welcome or like someone said, I get treated like an illegal alien. Edited August 17, 2008 by twinshocked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
29r Posted August 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2008 (edited) Geez' O' Chrysler ! I had just received the magazine last week with the hint of the rule change and now it's tossed !!!! But how ?....Why ?...Who....Aaargh ! Well... Tony , you are spot on . The addition of those Classes would beneficial to all . Frustrating to see a water-cooled Husky on the cover of VV and all the other disciplines with Post-Vintage Classes and more . I just..... I've ridden the West Coast events and come back thinking that , Yep , that was a long hike ( and $$ ) just for a parade . On the other hand , I've ridden events where the State Instrument is the Banjo ( ) and come away thinking what a great bang for the Buck . Hard doesn't have to difficult ( or is it the other way around ? ) Definetly a difference in philosophy . Obviously one has more clout than the other though . There in lies the problem . This , for me goes back to the Nintey's when we were asked to create a Trials at Grattan . Spending countless hours carving out sections in an overgrown , poison Ivy infested , trying to make something out of nothing , woods . We took it upon ourselves to invite our Local group to come and participate as a Fun Event, thinking that it would help spark some interest on a local level and interest in AHRMA . WRONG ! I was informed in no uncertain terms ( by a former World Champion ) that " It only 'Mucks' things up ". Well , okay , geez , sorry . On the other hand , it was Ho-Hum , we don't have time for 'Fun Trials' and there wasn't a need for additional classes . So much for trying . But yet , I keep coming back for more . Preserverance has to be the case if we want to improve/expand Vintage Trials at a National/ local level . Ahrma would seem the logical choice .... I agree , Tony . One Day , one Day .... On a lighter note... http://www.redheaded-stepchild.com/ Edited August 17, 2008 by 29r Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swooshdave Posted August 18, 2008 Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 AHRMA will go twinshock, just a matter of when. In the meantime stock up on the $300 SWM and Fantics! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axulsuv Posted August 18, 2008 Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 Point me towards some !!!! Glenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biffsgasgas Posted August 19, 2008 Report Share Posted August 19, 2008 Bring on the twin shocks! Old blokes are on fixed incomes and can not always drive across the country to participate. Young blokes may not be able to find an AHRMA legal bike. With local events every body wants the newer and easier to ride bikes. The early to mid 80's bikes have no true home in most parts of this country. Sure for a bit more effort you could make another expert line for them but keep the rules and make them turn tighter. --Biff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelmoore Posted August 20, 2008 Report Share Posted August 20, 2008 If the more modern bikes have to run under the same "no stop" rules as everyone else, just how much better will they really be? I thought the later bikes were from the early days of the "stop and hop" stuff. If you eliminate that factor is there a significant advantage? I suppose that if you want a really killer "tight course no-stop" you'd put a 325 or 340 Bultaco engine in a 123 Cota. cheers, Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swooshdave Posted August 20, 2008 Report Share Posted August 20, 2008 If the more modern bikes have to run under the same "no stop" rules as everyone else, just how much better will they really be?I thought the later bikes were from the early days of the "stop and hop" stuff. If you eliminate that factor is there a significant advantage? I suppose that if you want a really killer "tight course no-stop" you'd put a 325 or 340 Bultaco engine in a 123 Cota. cheers, Michael Actually a 123 Cota is pretty deadly on an AHRMA course. The ultra short wheelbase makes quick work of the tight turns. What would be just as tasty is a 247 in a 123 frame. Luckily we all have too many projects as it is, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copemech Posted August 20, 2008 Report Share Posted August 20, 2008 Seems like even when the high profile participants speak out, nothing is done! This example just p****s me off worse! No old bike for me, they can shove it! Mind you, I would love to compete on a bike from my early days, but not with their rules, it does just seem to be an old fart meeting, not a trials! That is fine, yet time moves on and they are behind the curve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaylael Posted August 22, 2008 Report Share Posted August 22, 2008 I think you're being too hard on them ole' boys. In fact this years AHRMA event at the Farm, had a two foot log submerged in a muck hole and the series of sidehill root nadgery turns too back it up, just on section 2. Also the level of difficulty will vary with the location. A great number of the guys who ride AHRMA vintage trials probably couldn't cut it riding NATC nationals even in the support classes. This does not make them inferior, only different. This is what they like. I think what these guys are trying to tell us is, In order to really understand what trials fundamentally is at it's purest, is found at the controls of a big british single such as an Ariel or BSA, pre unit trials bike. The flow and rythum, the finesse that is involved while turning on an off camber rooted up mudbank, between two trees, while retarding the spark just a fuzz to enhance the traction of the giant beast, making the job look easy with a dazzling clean, and getting a smile out of someone who saw it. In this guys eyes it would be shameful to touch the clutch, but to use the great big English flywheels for that super down low chug chug. These are ways for these guys to glimpse this elusive moment of perfection as they see it. I do understand this, but since it does take all kinds, I am just pleasing myself. I don't choose to afford that bike, because it isn't my thing, but at it's core THIS IS what AHRMA founders are trying to pass on to us before they are dead. Show a little respect, these guys will be gone soon enough and then after that it will be us. We really aren't that different. The twinshocks will come eventually. Right now I think allot of people miss the point about what AHRMA is trying to be and to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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