ysb Posted September 16, 2008 Report Share Posted September 16, 2008 If the fim went no stop then the acu should also go no stop, the whole idea is that we have the same rules as everyone else, this must make sense , our rules for football are the same as everyone else arnt they,, a wise move from the acu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timp Posted September 16, 2008 Report Share Posted September 16, 2008 If the fim went no stop then the acu should also go no stop, , the whole idea is that we have the same rules as everyone else this must make sense , our rules for football are the same as everyone else arnt they,, a wise move from the acu Not if everyone else is wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
no1 Posted September 17, 2008 Report Share Posted September 17, 2008 If you dont want to stop or cant stop thats up to you but others can its simple Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpa3 Posted September 17, 2008 Report Share Posted September 17, 2008 If you dont want to stop or cant stop thats up to you but others can its simple I don't think being able to stop or not is the problem here. It's the issue of one sport having three different sets of rules. The FIM have a free reign to cop and change as it suits them, the ACU are left to pick up the pieces and try to do what is best for the UK. So we end up with three sets of rules, no wonder observing decisions are being questioned. How many trials enthusiasts can honestly observe or ride (or even spectate) when it's so complicated? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comorph Posted September 20, 2008 Report Share Posted September 20, 2008 One set of Rules is best if you are thinking of the future of British Trials, wake up ACU, and thats not just in Trials. Look what happened in the WSB at Donny this year a Flag was waved, the two British Wild Card lads misstook the flag for being the Course Car was coming out, but it was for a wet slippy track in WSB. Please One Set of Rules! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpa3 Posted September 21, 2008 Report Share Posted September 21, 2008 One set of Rules is best if you are thinking of the future of British Trials, wake up ACU, and thats not just in Trials.Look what happened in the WSB at Donny this year a Flag was waved, the two British Wild Card lads misstook the flag for being the Course Car was coming out, but it was for a wet slippy track in WSB. Please One Set of Rules! Whilst I wish this was the case, this would mean that the SSDT, the Manx and all classic trials would have to be run under FIM rules. The only way we are ever going to see one set of rules is if the FIM go full non stop, the ACU have little say in what the FIM decide and, they have been proven in the past to change their minds at the drop of a hat anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud Posted September 24, 2008 Report Share Posted September 24, 2008 The rules should include everyones abilities (hoppers, straight riders). If you went to FIM rules at the SSDT i can't see the problem if one rider hops because he can and the other can't? The point which is being overlooked is the CofC. When the course is laid out he/she will use the terrain they have and riding up rocky gullies 'without' 180degree turns will suit both riding styles. The guy that hops in a section which doesn't require a hop will lose marks!!! i've seen it done many times down south when hopping is a disadvantage! Like i said its the CofC who is the most important person together with the terrain and the riders will access the section based on there abilities. I really don't understand what the problem is so long as there is a course time limit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perce Posted September 24, 2008 Report Share Posted September 24, 2008 (edited) If you went to FIM rules at the SSDT i can't see the problem if one rider hops because he can and the other can't? It's fairly simple really, it's a numbers game. If you give the riders the chance to stop in sections it means they have a chance to correct their errors, so the lad that will loose 10 on a day will have a greater chance of going clean. So then the C of C has to up the ante & make it tougher just to find his winner. All of a sudden the lads who are middle of the road who normally go round for 40 - 60 a day end up loosing 80 -100 a day. They're up there paying their money basically getting a harder time than they want, after all it's a holiday. There's a lot of lads, me included, who go up there to do their best, I don't want to ask for fives, I don't want to carry my bike through 30 sections a day just to say I've been, I want to enjoy my ride round Scotland have a crack at the sections & get my best possible result. So next year some of them don't turn up & despite the fact there's a waiting list at the moment in a few years the riders wanting to put themselves through Scotland gets fewer & fewer. So then the Club is financially stuffed, no more ssdt. Edited September 24, 2008 by PERCE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gizza5 Posted September 24, 2008 Report Share Posted September 24, 2008 It's fairly simple really, it's a numbers game. If you give the riders the chance to stop in sections it means they have a chance to correct their errors, so the lad that will loose 10 on a day will have a greater chance of going clean. So then the C of C has to up the ante & make it tougher just to find his winner. All of a sudden the lads who are middle of the road who normally go round for 40 - 60 a day end up loosing 80 -100 a day. They're up there paying their money basically getting a harder time than they want, after all it's a holiday. There's a lot of lads, me included, who go up there to do their best, I don't want to ask for fives, I don't want to carry my bike through 30 sections a day just to say I've been, I want to enjoy my ride round Scotland have a crack at the sections & get my best possible result. So next year some of them don't turn up & despite the fact there's a waiting list at the moment in a few years the riders wanting to put themselves through Scotland gets fewer & fewer. So then the Club is financially stuffed, no more ssdt. Yep that about sums it up and the very reason it was turned back to a 'No Stop' Trial.................. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comorph Posted September 25, 2008 Report Share Posted September 25, 2008 It's fairly simple really, it's a numbers game. If you give the riders the chance to stop in sections it means they have a chance to correct their errors, so the lad that will loose 10 on a day will have a greater chance of going clean. So then the C of C has to up the ante & make it tougher just to find his winner. All of a sudden the lads who are middle of the road who normally go round for 40 - 60 a day end up loosing 80 -100 a day. They're up there paying their money basically getting a harder time than they want, after all it's a holiday. There's a lot of lads, me included, who go up there to do their best, I don't want to ask for fives, I don't want to carry my bike through 30 sections a day just to say I've been, I want to enjoy my ride round Scotland have a crack at the sections & get my best possible result. So next year some of them don't turn up & despite the fact there's a waiting list at the moment in a few years the riders wanting to put themselves through Scotland gets fewer & fewer. So then the Club is financially stuffed, no more ssdt. Well worded PERCE so it looks like the stop rule will have to be Modern Adult Nationals, Plus Youth "A" & "B" which will help the future Dougie Lampkins in the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud Posted September 25, 2008 Report Share Posted September 25, 2008 (edited) It's fairly simple really, it's a numbers game. If you give the riders the chance to stop in sections it means they have a chance to correct their errors, so the lad that will loose 10 on a day will have a greater chance of going clean. So then the C of C has to up the ante & make it tougher just to find his winner. Its not a numbers game your mistaken. Are you last place finisher when you ride this event? if not what do you say to those riders who are not a good as you?.... "its a numbers game hahahaha i beat you". If top 5 riders in the world go clean what do you suggest?........Why would the CofC up the ante for these riders?....... If top 5 riders go clean its down to either the overall finishing time, or a shoot out on a few special test sections (what ever the organisers decides best). You've missed the point the trial has 'its level of difficulty' thats it plan and simple!!! Edited September 25, 2008 by spud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinell Posted September 25, 2008 Report Share Posted September 25, 2008 Its not a numbers game your mistaken. Are you last place finisher when you ride this event? if not what do you say to those riders who are not a good as you?.... "its a numbers game hahahaha i beat you". If top 5 riders in the world go clean what do you suggest?........Why would the CofC up the ante for these riders?....... If top 5 riders go clean its down to either the overall finishing time, or a shoot out on a few special test sections (what ever the organisers decides best). You've missed the point the trial has 'its level of difficulty' thats it plan and simple!!! Spud, I'd get my coat if I were you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ishy Posted September 25, 2008 Report Share Posted September 25, 2008 FIM know what they are doing, I think ? don't they? five or six changes isn't a lot is it? well the sport is growing isn't it? so they must know what they are doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perce Posted September 28, 2008 Report Share Posted September 28, 2008 It's fairly simple really, it's a numbers game. If you give the riders the chance to stop in sections it means they have a chance to correct their errors, so the lad that will loose 10 on a day will have a greater chance of going clean. So then the C of C has to up the ante & make it tougher just to find his winner. All of a sudden the lads who are middle of the road who normally go round for 40 - 60 a day end up loosing 80 -100 a day. They're up there paying their money basically getting a harder time than they want, after all it's a holiday. There's a lot of lads, me included, who go up there to do their best, I don't want to ask for fives, I don't want to carry my bike through 30 sections a day just to say I've been, I want to enjoy my ride round Scotland have a crack at the sections & get my best possible result. So next year some of them don't turn up & despite the fact there's a waiting list at the moment in a few years the riders wanting to put themselves through Scotland gets fewer & fewer. So then the Club is financially stuffed, no more ssdt. Well worded PERCE so it looks like the stop rule will have to be Modern Adult Nationals, Plus Youth "A" & "B" which will help the future Dougie Lampkins in the UK. I've used the SSDT example but Trials at Club level isn't very different. We've run the Hard 50/50 Easy course thing for the best part of 10 years now. After a slowish start the 50/50 took off & has become the most popular course ridden, the majority of riders have stepped up from the easy route. Now if we were to go FIM at our Club Trials I see a reversal of trends happening. The Hard course gets tougher, it's got to so marks can be taken off those that can stop. We then loose the lads who struggle with it, they either give up & find something else to do on a Sunday (there's a lot of pride at stake with a lot of folk) or they drop down a level. We then get the kick on effect of having to stiffen the next level etc etc. At a point in the 80's our Club had two of the top riders in the country, unwisely some of those who acted as C of C's marked Trials out to take marks off them & not to mark out for the masses, entry levels fell. As you can gather I don't like the FIM rules, a sport that has less than 10 people competing at a World round (I don't count the other two levels, they're purely a support class) has something seriously wrong with it. So isn't time that something was done to make it more competative? Change the rear tyre width, change the tyre profiles, limit the engine capacity, make all the bikes weigh 100kgs or why not just have the simple rule, if you stop it's a 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perce Posted September 28, 2008 Report Share Posted September 28, 2008 Its not a numbers game your mistaken. Are you last place finisher when you ride this event? if not what do you say to those riders who are not a good as you?.... "its a numbers game hahahaha i beat you". If top 5 riders in the world go clean what do you suggest?........Why would the CofC up the ante for these riders?....... If top 5 riders go clean its down to either the overall finishing time, or a shoot out on a few special test sections (what ever the organisers decides best). You've missed the point the trial has 'its level of difficulty' thats it plan and simple!!! Sorry Mister Potatohead but you've been deep fried. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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