Good To See The Acu Has Just Ruined Trials

[pedronicman]

No wonder a lot have clubs have changed to the AMCA in the last few years

and probably many more will now!

[scorpa3]

I know one! And hes a right idiot especially when he gives you a '5' for only 4 hops to the side

In my opinion i would like a rule when stopping is allowed, but obviously within reason otherwise people will over do it.

"A 5 for only 4 hops to the side" in fact you should get a five for just one stationary hop to the side, so the person you mention could be a lot tougher than they are being!

And that sums up the problem that we all face almost every trial. The current rules are rarely used correctly, even by peopel who do/think they do know them. (Which is just what Mick was saying.)

[trialsnutterman]

I know one! And hes a right idiot especially when he gives you a '5' for only 4 hops to the side

In my opinion i would like a rule when stopping is allowed, but obviously within reason otherwise people will over do it.

He sounds like a good observer to me, I bet you only stop when it's absolutely necessary now in his section?

[trialsnutterman]

And that sums up the problem that we all face almost every trial. The current rules are rarely used correctly, even by peopel who do/think they do know them. (Which is just what Mick was saying.)

Yeah but what do you do next year when every one is backing it up in the section, change the rules again so you can go backwards.

Why not get rid of all the rules then we won't require any observers.

[wri5hty]

it's probably too early to say this will kill trial's off. but at least now the rules are clear. i usually set up sections with turns that can be made without hopping if riden well and will continue to do so. but some riders hop for hoppings sake. one problem people seem to have with this is the extra time some riders will take in sections but you can put time limits on them and a rider can be requested to leave the section due to unnecessary delay so if you have them hopping about all over the place maybe a quick " howay mate we havent got all day" might just get the message across.

[rabie]

fundamentally we've had this argument on this site (and its predecessor ) and almost certainly since before the internet - the result? there is NO answer that will please everyone!

the TSR22A of ? to 2008 was not universally liked but by offering TSR22B (ie non stop) you catered for the people who want to run pre65 and modern events of a non stop style. at the same time there is a group of clubs/events that want "FIM" (ie timmed and/or carte blanc). Each club/promoter/event/rider has a very good reason why each of these 3 choices is valid and even why the whole UK should move to that system.

The new TSR22A (2009 onwards) i suppose offers some relief to hard pressed club/promoters/observers but i won't (and i don't think it is or is intended to be) be the magic panacea to all our making problems.

we need to remember that we as a sport (of trials) need to be a very "broad church", encompassing these divergent opinions on trials marking. down here in the south east, we lost a good chunk of our centre trials (the South Coast Group) to the AMCA, primarily (but not totally) over helmets in trials. to everyone i can find today, not wearing a helmet sounds crazy, but back then its was incredibly divisive, and our failure as a governing body nationally and locally to be able to accommodate these divergent rules is really a tragedy - why? the Ramblers, government, greens, and other assorted "anti's" are not going to care about which alphabet soup oppose their attempts to destroy our sport, but they do care that there will be one powerful, well funded and supported body stopping them in their tracks.

so back to trials marking after the unity rant , there is no magic solution! we need to have options (and that is what this new rule change gives) to enable clubs to run non stop anywhere in the UK, to prepare riders for the world championship, but to also run sensible modern trials in piddly little woods in the south east where we don't have vast open moor lands and great natural stream/gulley sections that are non stop embodied.

[spud]

Yeah but what do you do next year when every one is backing it up in the section, change the rules again so you can go backwards.

Why not get rid of all the rules then we won't require any observers.

I've said this many times a rider can do what ever they want within a section but they have an overall time limit to complete the event. Hopping is an advanced skill and riders will have learnt there trade straight riding before they can hop. MW makes a valid point about bike technology and what bikes can now do. TSR22b still exists for the non hopping trials which is a good thing for the old boys like me.

You could do away with observers if the riders are will mark each other, which does happen now on a small scale.

Rabie, i never new about the wearing a helmet was a big issue down south, good history lesson that.

Edited October 14, 2008 by spud

[perce]

With my personal head on all I can say is that anyone who believes that full no stop is the greatest thing since hovis went sliced is talking out of their a***.

So a set of rules where the rider can stand & scratch his nuts or have a nervous affliction were he has to adjust his helmet a dozen time before he'll attempt the next bit of the section whilst 50 riders sit bored ****less is the real deal? What the hell is an

[tricky dicky]

I can remember very clearly when the rules changed back to stop for a dab in 1998 in the british and world champs and everybody thought it was crackers but it was brilliant. The trouble is that the same people will still win whatever the rules so its not going to make a difference! I think the ACU have done the right thing bringing it in for normal trials. The C of C's just need to lay the trials out so that it makes bugger all difference if you can hop or not!

[the addict]

The key to this working is as said by Trickydicky "The C of C's just need to lay the trials out so that it makes bugger all difference if you can hop or not!" I think the rule change is the correct one as it makes observing a hell of alot easier and eases the pressure on them whilst marking a rider. The Trials at club level at the moment are perfect, yes too tight down south but thats because of the ground available but most can be rode without stopping for long periods of time but non stop is impossible. If C of C's set trials next year even tighter where the only way around a turn is to hop and stop then yes it will be a pain, dont change anything from what it is now, this rule will only help the observers and good job too, I dread observing these days. If the sections remain as they are now I just cant see why or how anyone is going to stand there for 30 seconds looking at a step that could have been ridden straight up easier to start with? but make the run ups non existant or mega tight then yes we'll get queues.

Just to add, last year I observed a section at the Colmore, the section I was on had a tight 90 degree turn followed by a big steep climb with a big under cut log at the top. I could nt see any way the turn could be rode non stop to make an attempt at the climb so what do I do as an observer? give 99% of the field a 1 for stopping to make the turn and get ****ing old **** shouted at me for 3 hours or bend the rules? the current stop is a 1 aint worked

Edited October 14, 2008 by The Addict

[wri5hty]

Unnecessary delay is a grey area and one I would like someone to clear up with a definite idea of it

[scorpa3]

If we as observers strictly gave a one for stopping and a five for bouncing sideways whilst stationary, the rules we have would be fine. Riders would simply pivot around a good long dab to make a turn and take the one.

The problem is (and I'm guilty of this) many of us tend to overlook a bit of bouncing and the odd short pause. Then once riders realise that they can get away with a little manouvering, it soon becomes the norm.

As Addict said, it simply wasn't working, so we may aswell allow it and just have two choices of rules.

I'd be happy with full non stop for all, but as that isn't going to happen (unless the FIM chose non stop) then having the choice is the next best thing.

[tricky dicky]

I think where it all went wrong was when the FIM brought back the hopping into world rounds as there was technically 3 sets of rules which is ludicrous. I witnessed it myself that riders were taking the **** by hopping a liitlle bit, then a very brief pause became a longer pause and now its ended up that people are stopping unpenalised in no stop trials. Its very difficult to get observers as it is without people standing balancing for no reason when its freezing cold.

[jimmyl]

As said earlier the C of C has the ability to make it work or not. Where terrain allows keep the turns sensible so no need to mess about unless somebody paticularily wants to. Too many times I have been to superb venues only to have section marked out where you need to disapear up your own A***Hole.

I think you will find that a lot of the most popular trials the rules being ridden are irrelevant to what score you loose (riding it no stop or stop permitted or stop for 30secs) the section can be cleaned or at least ridden using the style you prefer.

[telecat]

Speaking as an Observer I have two comments. Firstly I can five everybody at sections where TSR22B runs, that includes the best riders, (and I mean "the best" riders), because every trial I observe at requires a "stop" these days. Secondly I can three every rider under 2008 TSR22A rules. Riders get a lot of leeway as it stands and whinging about it does not change it. 2009 TSR22A rules will not change much excepting that I'd say that a few riders will take "the p***". If they do that on my sections I'll five them. That means I still have pressure because nobody likes being told they have had a five. So be it!!!!