More Trouble At Ahrma

[slalom_specialist]

There was an interesting article on RoadRacing Worlds web site yesterday afternoon regarding Alice Sexton, AHRMA's Communications Director

[swooshdave]

Vintage Bike Racing

There is an ongoing discuss about this issue and others on this forum. (They rarely bring up trials unless I do there so I hope it's not a conflict posting this link).

ITSA hasn't made it's way all the West Coast yet so AHRMA is all we have. With nearly 100 riders at the last Chehalis National it's doing ok.

The one complaint I've heard from some people is that ITSA is too hard. That is the challenge when you mix later bikes with vintage ones. It's a similar issue when trying to mix vintage and post-vintage (1975-on) mx.

[brian r]

ITSA too hard? (hmm that reads like an Italian - American said it).

Any hoo, I think Bob G sets most of these up and I haven't seen them be too

hard, technically challenging, yes, but not dangerous. Put someone like Fracy on a Fantic

and he has to have SOME sort of challenge though.

[axulsuv]

At any one of the several ITSA events I've traveled to , No matter what class your riding , You best get off your bike and walk every section . Some of them you can just eyeball 2nd or 3rd loop , others you best walk every time ... And I have competed in ahrma/ITSA 2day events and the lines are always appropriate for the given class , We don't have rigid bikes riding the modern trinshock lines...

And riding with Bob ,Hockeyboy , PeeWee and the rest or just watching them work the great old bikes we love is ALWAYS worth the trip.

And yes it's pretty rare at ITSA events to see more than a few single digit scores ! It's supposed to be a challenge !!! I've also never seen a

Dangerous section either , no spotters required ... So maybe it's just a state of mind !

Can't we all just have fun on two wheels ?

Glenn

And PS. From what I know of and heard about Mr. Fracey , if he rode one , he'd think he'd time warped back to THE DAYS !!!

[steve fracy]

Wow, when I see my name being used as some sort of example out there for you younguns, I guess I should chime in too! Its no secret that us Fantic lovers love riding them. I am finding it really fun riding our club events at home now because my son is riding the Intermediate class. I can take out the 300 and ride the same sections as him. Be challenged enough to have a great day out, and also help him out too by trying out different lines. At our last event I rode the Sen. Int class(same sections as Int). Nothing dangerous, some tight turns, steps, slippery stuff, cambers etc. All basic trials skills that any Int rider needs to learn! I lost 2 dabs on the first loop, and then had two clean loops. My good old buddy Dave Fair( the Canadian GG importer) normally wins the class, had 21pts. The point is that the sections were in no way too hard for anyone in the class, and I did take some points. The old bikes will do amazing things if you can get some time in on them and practise.

I did contact Bob about having an ITSA event up in Canada, because we do run a 3 event vintage series called the Outlaw Series. (started by Canadian trials legend Outlaw Dave).Bobs answer was yes, it would be possible. Perhaps if some of the Washington and Oregon guys organized and event too, we could incorporate two weekends out west that would make it worth the trip!

PS. I teased my buddy Dave when I got his answering machine that he was probably searching the Web looking for a good Fantic, thats why he could not answer the phone!

[paulthistle]

I say it is interesting because it seems that the (pardon the term) good old boys who ran AHRMA into bankruptcy are at it again.

http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=34920

I am in no way defending the "good ol boys". However, The good ol boys didn't bankrupt ahrma. That was done by a roadracing team with money, that vowed to break ahrma. (probably because of aforementioned "good ol boys")And even though ahrma was vindicated in court it left them with no alternative but bankruptcy.

There seem to be a lot of organizations run by dinasours, in need of house cleaning, federal govt included. And no the election has not ended the grazing.

[axulsuv]

Wow, when I see my name being used as some sort of example out there for you younguns, I guess I should chime in too! Its no secret that us Fantic lovers love riding them. I am finding it really fun riding our club events at home now because my son is riding the Intermediate class. I can take out the 300 and ride the same sections as him. Be challenged enough to have a great day out, and also help him out too by trying out different lines. At our last event I rode the Sen. Int class(same sections as Int). Nothing dangerous, some tight turns, steps, slippery stuff, cambers etc. All basic trials skills that any Int rider needs to learn! I lost 2 dabs on the first loop, and then had two clean loops. My good old buddy Dave Fair( the Canadian GG importer) normally wins the class, had 21pts. The point is that the sections were in no way too hard for anyone in the class, and I did take some points. The old bikes will do amazing things if you can get some time in on them and practise.

I did contact Bob about having an ITSA event up in Canada, because we do run a 3 event vintage series called the Outlaw Series. (started by Canadian trials legend Outlaw Dave).Bobs answer was yes, it would be possible. Perhaps if some of the Washington and Oregon guys organized and event too, we could incorporate two weekends out west that would make it worth the trip!

PS. I teased my buddy Dave when I got his answering machine that he was probably searching the Web looking for a good Fantic, thats why he could not answer the phone!

What Younguns !!!!... I'm no spring chicken !

[alan_nc]

Well, as someone who rode Barber last year (but not this year) I can make a couple of comments. The Barber course is really bad. It's dangerous, not challenging. The Barber folks don't really seem to want us there and made it difficult to run the event. Last year: Entry was blocked to the course after the supposed starting time. Event was scheduled when most folks were packing up to head home. and..... in fairness - this year it was at the height of the gas problem (in NC we actually couldn't find gas).

If you have ever ridden a ITSA event I think you will have to say that they are tough, but safe. Put on ...by Trials Riders, for Trials Riders.

I'll probably re-join AHRMA this year but I'm not sure why.

Alan

[dabbinbob]

Vintage Bike Racing

There is an ongoing discuss about this issue and others on this forum. (They rarely bring up trials unless I do there so I hope it's not a conflict posting this link).

ITSA hasn't made it's way all the West Coast yet so AHRMA is all we have. With nearly 100 riders at the last Chehalis National it's doing ok.

The one complaint I've heard from some people is that ITSA is too hard. That is the challenge when you mix later bikes with vintage ones. It's a similar issue when trying to mix vintage and post-vintage (1975-on) mx.

Those of us who started ITSA (www.twinshock.org) hear this comment way too often. If you think about it you can equate it to the old question of "Which came first, the chicken or the egg?"

So, let's look at this issue. It would seem that trials riders in all areas of the country are aware that ITSA exists. We are strong in the areas where riders have joined, supported our ideas, and started a series and held ITSA events. We can help with insurance, sanctions, marking kits and other organizational needs.

The reason ITSA isn't strong in your area is because trials riders there haven't joined. If you like our ideas then maybe you should join. Our main goal is to make the sport of trials strong.

As far as ITSA being too hard.....Here is how we design our sections. We look at the machine capability, matched up with the true meaning of the rider ability levels (novice, intermediate, and expert), we then design the sections to accommodate both. A rider feeling that the sections are too hard is most likely riding in the wrong ability level and should consider changing. For example, if a rider signs up as an expert and finds they are struggling with the sections, they might just be an intermediate riding in the wrong class. This is easily fixed.

Our view is that we need you and want you as members. Take the time to join and participate on the website and together let's make twin-shock trials strong in every part of the country.

Bob Ginder

[slalom_specialist]

The reason ITSA isn't strong in your area is because trials riders there haven't joined. If you like our ideas then maybe you should join. Our main goal is to make the sport of trials strong.

Bob Ginder

ITSA web site: http://twinshock.org/content.aspx?page_id=...;club_id=922050

[swooshdave]

Those of us who started ITSA (www.twinshock.org) hear this comment way too often. If you think about it you can equate it to the old question of "Which came first, the chicken or the egg?"

If you are hearing a complaint "way too often" it *might* be time to find out why... I have not been to an ITSA event but it would be interesting to see how they balance the different classes and rider levels. There a bit of difference between an early Bultaco and a late Fantic. Of course one could argue that there is even more difference between the rigid BSA and a late Bultaco you'll see at an AHRMA event...

The reason ITSA isn't strong in your area is because trials riders there haven't joined. If you like our ideas then maybe you should join. Our main goal is to make the sport of trials strong.

The reason ITSA isn't strong in the PNW is that we (fortunately) have some very, very good vintage trials here. And some very dedicated trials folks. If that should falter I would expect ITSA to move in rapidly.

As far as ITSA being too hard.....Here is how we design our sections. We look at the machine capability, matched up with the true meaning of the rider ability levels (novice, intermediate, and expert), we then design the sections to accommodate both. A rider feeling that the sections are too hard is most likely riding in the wrong ability level and should consider changing. For example, if a rider signs up as an expert and finds they are struggling with the sections, they might just be an intermediate riding in the wrong class. This is easily fixed.

And what if the section is too hard for a novice rider on a vintage bike? Not much to do then.

Our view is that we need you and want you as members. Take the time to join and participate on the website and together let's make twin-shock trials strong in every part of the country.

Bob Ginder

No offense but right now I'm already paying dues to a couple trials clubs. Like I said if things change in this area I'll be the first to sign up and get ITSA going, but until then I'll stick it out.

[axulsuv]

ITSA Classes ;

1 Modern twinshock =1980 & newer aircooled , drum braked , twinshocks ....

2 historic = 1973 -79 Twinshocks

3 pre-historic = 72 and earlier

4 Mono support

Novice , intermediate and expert for all bike classes , Simple NO-STOP rules ...

And always more than enough bike class and rider class appropriate sections !

IT just don't get much better than this , these days , imho ....

Glenn

And PS. , yes sometimes at the ranch there are spots on the loop itself that you need your raceface on and your eyes wide open ... (the creek sometimes by the 3rd loop can be real fun ...!) But all in all , We are !! Trials riders , For Trials riders . And Not everybody wins ...

Nuff said ... maybe

Edited November 7, 2008 by axulsuv

[swooshdave]

The one thing I'm looking forward to when/if ITSA comes out West is the classes. My M49 is in the Modern Classic AHRMA class which puts it at a substantial disadvantage against the later bikes.

Since Bultacos are difficult to define by model year, where is the actual break between Historic and Pre-Historic by Model Number? Is it M49/M80 or M80/M91?

The bad thing about the ITSA classes is poor support for the really old bikes (pre-65) which should not be in the same class as an early 70s trials bike. But this just reflects ITSA focus towards the newer bikes.

[axulsuv]

Not being knowledgable of the different bultaco models , (I know they made the renowned sherpa , but telling one from another is beyond me ! )

But the historic class does include the the 5 speed spanish bikes ... wherever they came into play ...

Wasn't it just so much easier in the 70's when I don't remember bike classes so much , just the rider class ! But the bikes of the 80's and forward have improved so much they need to be separated ...

[swooshdave]

But the historic class does include the the 5 speed spanish bikes ... wherever they came into play ...

That might push the poor old M49 into the Historic Class. Which means the year divisions are pretty flexible as the M49 came out it something like 69.