More Trouble At Ahrma

[axulsuv]

Well ups just got here ! so I've gotta go make some shock bushings out of some old jeep urethane leaf spring bushings ,for the 12.5 inch old telesco's (from a Bultaco !!!) that are going on the ty80 for now ... Till it gets test riden and I get some falcons made ...( if the boys earn them !)

Glenn

[biffsgasgas]

The one thing that Ahrma has over Itsa for me is that Ahrma has a little taste of everything motorcycle from that era.

It like a buffet. You can try new foods while you attend. Unfortunately if people are not trying the general chows chicken then the business owner would take it off the menu. If the chef has no clue how to cook general chow's chicken then it will end up badly. We are the people who want the general chows chicken in this senario. The owners would be Ahrma and people who taste it have not been happy recently....

Wow i like that analogy.

--Biff

[brian r]

Dave, I hope you don't take this the wrong way. If your really concerned about how competitive your bike is and how you would place in a certain class, ITSA may not be for you. ITSA is a bunch of riders that want to do nothing but have a good time. Trust me, my big fat ___ on a stock poor little TL 125 ISN'T competitive. For me that's part of the personal challenge and the fun of it. Part of the problem with the modern events is that they take it all so seriously in some classes. ITSA=FUN.

[twinshocked]

All this AHRMA BS bums me out. SO, I look HERE to cheer myself up. These guys sure look like they are having fun.

Trials in the US is soooo small and Vintage trials is even smaller. Lets make it fun while we make it grow.

Dave, how easy do they have to be? ITSA has a Novice class. Sections can always be set up for different skill levels.

NATC sets up sections for National Championship and Senior 65 (age) all in the same setion. If they can do that, I am sure that ITSA can set up sections for the AHRMA boys.

[swooshdave]

Dave, I hope you don't take this the wrong way. If your really concerned about how competitive your bike is and how you would place in a certain class, ITSA may not be for you. ITSA is a bunch of riders that want to do nothing but have a good time. Trust me, my big fat ___ on a stock poor little TL 125 ISN'T competitive. For me that's part of the personal challenge and the fun of it. Part of the problem with the modern events is that they take it all so seriously in some classes. ITSA=FUN.

Trust me, I'm not concerned or worried about ever finishing first. Heck, I'm just now starting to NOT finish last. But I almost always have fun.

[jaylael]

Since about 1999 I have been riding a few AHRMA trials each year. During that time I have gotten a feel for how these events are run, the section difficulty and the general ambience at these events. My take on this is that AHRMA have really gotten something special going on. At the events I have attended there has been a very well organized effort to not only have fun, but to preserve the feel of riding trials back in the early days. The events are much shorter in distance, and nowhere near as difficult, but hey' we're all getting older so that's ok too isn't it?

The bulk of the riders in AHRMA events are generally not super talented at trials riding. This provides a great place for these guys to have a good time and not be scared off by too hard of loops, and scary sections. In COTA trials events the loop length and difficulty is usually FAR greater than most AHRMA trials. This alone can make a huge difference, to a wobbly old guy on some 1974 Japanese trials bike he bought at a garage sale, like ten years ago and just got running. The easier layouts are just what the bulk of the riders really want to ride.

ITSA sounds like a hoot to me since it isn't super serious, and riding trials with your friends is a pretty fun way to spend a weekend. I think it's great that guys who own bikes which are not AHRMA legal can have somewhere to ride them. Owners of big old twinshockers like the SWM Jumbo and the like are in need of trials events to ride. I'm sure events in which these bikes can be ridden are a huge asset to their value and contribute to their preservation.

[michaelmoore]

It does no good to have sections that novices can ride (and Modern Classic Novice appears to generally be the largest class at AHRMA events) if they can't make it from section to section on the loop.

After I get warmed up I can usually clean any MC3 section, I just can't do it consistently. I've seen spots on the loop at different events that have had me not feeling very comfortable about riding them. When I see the majority of other MC3 folks having a lot more trouble riding the sections then I do, I suspect they are going to be even more uncomfortable about hard spots on the loop than I am.

And let's not forget the people who ride the 4 line. They've got to get around the loop too.

Difficult obstacles need to be appearing in the sections, not on the loop.

cheers,

Michael

[zippy]

biffsgasgas Posted Nov 7 2008, 12:56 PM

The one thing that Ahrma has over Itsa for me is that Ahrma has a little taste of everything motorcycle from that era.

It like a buffet. You can try new foods while you attend. Unfortunately if people are not trying the general chows chicken then the business owner would take it off the menu. If the chef has no clue how to cook general chow's chicken then it will end up badly. We are the people who want the general chows chicken in this senario. The owners would be Ahrma and people who taste it have not been happy recently....

Wow i like that analogy.

--Biff

What about those that want to eat the Crab Legs?????

As someone mentioned yesterday............."You eat all crab legs. you no eat any more crab legs!"

Edited November 9, 2008 by ZIPPY

[slalom_specialist]

It seems this topic has regressed into who has the harder sections and/or loops, which has nothing to do with my original post,......... which was more about my disgust with the politics of AHRMA........While I singled out AHRMA for my post because of the RRW article, it can (and does) hold true for any sanctioning body where a few people who start out with good intentions, over time digress into a battle of wills and struggle to keep power with the belief only they know what is best for the rest of us.

This is not the place to go into the cause of the litigation between AHRMA and TO or who was right or wrong, except to say the stubbornness of one or two individuals on both sides lead to the litigation, which in turn lead to AHRMA's subsequent filing for protection under Chapter 11. My only point is the same stubborn person(s) who was behind the TO litigation is now trying to regain power in AHRMA. I don't know Cindy personally, but most members I know that do, think highly of her, and the few times I have met her at off road events I think she was trying to rebuild AHRMA into something for the good of all members.

I also have a lot of respect for Jeff Smith, both for what he has accomplished as a motocross rider and as a trials rider in the past and even now as a rider. In fact he was one of the riders I watched race at Pepperell as a kid and was partly responsible for my getting into motocross way back in then. That said, I think it's time for Jeff (and a few others) to back away from the business of running AHRMA and just enjoy being a racer and trials rider again and let others take over.

Fortunately, (and without commenting on which line and/or loop is harder) AHRMA is not the only game in town, and I because of where I live, I can ride ITSA and/or STRA events, which is why I will not be renewing my AHRMA membership.

[swooshdave]

Fortunately, (and without commenting on which line and/or loop is harder) AHRMA is not the only game in town, and I because of where I live, I can ride ITSA and/or STRA events, which is why I will not be renewing my AHRMA membership.

Sooooooooo... who has harder lines, AHRMA, ITSA or STRA?

[brian r]

STRA,

Come ride the loop at TTC.

[slalom_specialist]

STRA,

Come ride the loop at TTC.

Agreed, TTC has a killer loop, but it is fun just the same.

[tony283]

Yes, like most TC threads this has wandered way off the original topic! which I believe was the appalling treatment of a particular AHRMA volunteer who, as usual did a fine job but was discarded on the the drop of a hat...... remember the Woody Graves treatment? While most of us have tremendous respect for the Trustees these last 2 incidents leave us all speechless, let alone the ridiculous opposition to the inclusion of a modern twinshock class. Should AHRMA wish to hold Trials events reminisecent of the 50's 60's and 70's then perhaps they should revert to a single line section with all classes attempting the same section. There of course will be big differences in the scores depending on class and ability but that WAS THE WAY IT WAS. ITSA does try to capture some of this idea but isolates sections to varying classes or ability levels so therefore never gives a first timer or Novice a true idea as to how he or she performed relative to an accredited Expert on the same line. Comments regarding the "loop" are in my opinion worthless as are comments on "AHRMA 4 line riders" as in National Competition you can either ride the bike or not, and if the loop is too difficult to ride or the sections are outside your current ability then.... don't whine or complain, get out there and practice or take up another sport.

Tony

[michaelmoore]

Comments regarding the "loop" are in my opinion worthless as are comments on "AHRMA 4 line riders" as in National Competition you can either ride the bike or not, and if the loop is too difficult to ride or the sections are outside your current ability then.... don't whine or complain, get out there and practice or take up another sport

From the AHRMA rulebook:

13.1 CLASSES

All of the following classes are further divided into the following ability levels: Expert, Intermediate and Novice. A non-points-scoring Beginner class is available to riders on any AHRMA-legal machine (see 13.3b). There is no minimum age for riders.

Tony, do you not see any problems with your statement when ARHMA runs an event (including Nationals) that caters to amateur riders including kids on Yamaha 60 minienduros and people who've never ridden a trial before (and may be doing it on some early 70s enduro bike that they dragged out of a shed)?

AHRMA events are "national" only in that they cover most of the nation, not in that they are aimed at "National" level riders. If you are running a pro-type "National" then you need to have a way to exclude people who don't fit that caliber of event, which I suspect will be about 80% of the AHRMA trials riders.

The AHRMA events I've ridden over the last 5-8 years sure seem to be aimed at "family/fun" kind of riders, though I'm sure that if Bernie Schreiber or Lane Leavitt want to show up and ride the 1 line they'll be welcome.

Difficult riding at that kind of event needs to take place in a section where someone can ride a line appropriate to their skill level. The loop needs to be set for the very lowest denominator rider. If you don't, then you might as well just refuse their entry as taking their money and pointing them at a loop they may not be able to navigate is pretty close to fraud (in my view).

cheers,

Michael

[copemech]

I think Tony has most of it nailed in his post and comments.

It IS unfortunate and true, the comments of the riders seem to agree that trials is still the ******* child of AHRMA. Seems members input have little results! Shame.

Many rediculous rules and such have put me off from going back to the proverbial Roots of trials (and my age group).

Nor(Michael) would it neccessarily mean that flogging your (pig of choice) about the loop would neccessarily be EASY, fact is, it is much easier for me to ride a mod bike which is light and powerful. I can get beat by the kids and not mind. There are no politics, no arguments, no rules of engagement, just ride what you brung.

Having a good time is all mental, I can totally FO, take all the 5's I want, dab when I want and still ride any old POS in any given trial, yho cares? Trials is Trials!