brian r Posted November 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 Like I said, I'll not convince you of anything. But you'll not be able to stop me for praying for you either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikespace Posted November 7, 2008 Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 Like I said, I'll not convince you of anything. But you'll not be able to stop me for praying for you either. Could you pray for a new Sherco for me please. I'm atheist so only interested in material things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy.t Posted November 7, 2008 Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 For those who find strange things hard to believe and understand then look back at our ancestors who thought the world was flat, it was because they could see no further than the horizon which gave the impression the world was like a saucer. We still have the same problems now in that if we don't understand things then they cant have any merit. I think in keeping an open mind lets you explore all possibilities, like I think I saw a ghost, it was the image of a pet. I think that someone sat on my side of the bed one night,well something did as I could feel it, but I didn't dare look. I think that I could have seen a UFO, it was only lights, but was very strange. I think we have senses that we use perhaps without even realizing it, I'm sure you all have had what we call gut feelings that defy logic but turn out to come true, all these things for me are real ,one way or another. One thing for sure is that in many years to come people will look back at how we perceived life and laugh. My tip to extend your vision is to go outside, look into the sky and wonder where it all ends, the truth is it can't, so anything is possible if you think about it.(in my opinion) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted November 7, 2008 Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 For those who find strange things hard to believe and understand then look back at our ancestors who thought the world was flat, it was because they could see no further than the horizon which gave the impression the world was like a saucer. We still have the same problems now in that if we don't understand things then they cant have any merit. I think in keeping an open mind lets you explore all possibilities, like I think I saw a ghost, it was the image of a pet. I think that someone sat on my side of the bed one night,well something did as I could feel it, but I didn't dare look. I think that I could have seen a UFO, it was only lights, but was very strange. I think we have senses that we use perhaps without even realizing it, I'm sure you all have had what we call gut feelings that defy logic but turn out to come true, all these things for me are real ,one way or another. One thing for sure is that in many years to come people will look back at how we perceived life and laugh. My tip to extend your vision is to go outside, look into the sky and wonder where it all ends, the truth is it can't, so anything is possible if you think about it.(in my opinion) Fortunately some of our ancestors thought what you said above was a crock of sh!t and decided to look further, hence the discoveries made by scientists through time, culminating in the haldron thingy when they get it up and running again may actually tell us more about our origins.( http://www.crystalinks.com/scientists.html check this out) Until that time the sensible amoung us will realise that ghosts don't exsist and UFO's are just that not aliens from another solar system or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ishy Posted November 7, 2008 Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 What a twerp, if it wasn't flat we would fall off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian r Posted November 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 Seems like these are the only Brits that can't explain everything. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uFcPjILC7k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted November 8, 2008 Report Share Posted November 8, 2008 Seems like these are the only Brits that can't explain everything.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uFcPjILC7k Oh well I guess you got me there Keith Moon probably saw more ghosts than many, and more ufo's than most. Also made a cadillac fly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapshot 3 Posted November 8, 2008 Report Share Posted November 8, 2008 Ghosts, God and now UFO's...pulling out all the non-believer stuff here. Ghosts - Someone disprove it, there's no rational explanation of why things "happen" so until someone can disprove it..... UFO's - we've done this one before (bits of it below). Statistically we can't be the only lifeforms ever to have successfully colonised a planet therefore I firmly believe there are other beings out there. If you don't believe look at the stats...... Big bunch of girls.......no one resorted to maths or bull$h!t yet..:Examine the Milky Way (our Galaxy, not the choccy bar you can eat between meals without ruining your appetite) Okay if we assume, using latest estimates, that there are 400 billion stars (4.0 x 1014, one UK Billion = 1.0 x 1012) in the Milky Way then a little bit of assumption and maths tells us the following: if 1 in 100 stars in the Milky way have planetary systems then there are: 4.0 x 1014 / 100 = 4.0 x 1012 supporting a planetary system in the Milky Way If we then assume 1 in 100 of these stars have planetary systems similar to the Solar System then there are: 4.0 x 1012 /100 = 4.0 x 1010stars with planetary systems similar to the Solar System in the Milky Way If we then assume that 1 in 8 planets (Pluto is not officially a planet anymore) is capable of supporting intelligent life AS WE KNOW IT.. then 4.0 x 1010 / 8 = 5 x 109 or 5,000,000,000 planets capable of supporting life in our own Galaxy. This is purely based on simple numbers no other factors taken into account, however; as 75% of the stars in the Milky Way are Red Dwarfs and lack the UV Radiation thats been critical in evolution of life on Earth then we could safely cut that number by a quarter to 1,250,000,000 potential planets that could support life. It is completely unknown how many stars have planetary systems or if these planets have moons that can support intelligent life (many scientists thought that Europa, one of Jupiters moons, may have the right conditions), it's impossible to accurately review these numbers. If we assume however, purely for hypothesis sakes, these numbers are realistic (not flippin likely) then based on the estimate of 240 billion galaxies in the known universe, then: (1.25 x 109) x (2.4 x 1014)= 3 x 10 23 planets (and Milton Keynes ) capable of supporting intelligent life. Based on these numbers alone I think it's safe to say there are others out there however there are far better brains than mine looking at this. Dr Frank Drake, the guy who championed and was instrumental in setting up SETI (Search for Extra Terrestial Intelligence) created The Drake Equation in the 60's examining the true potential extent of life in other star systems, worth a read.....(maybe), alternatively, you could always go along with the thinking of Enrico Fermi another eminent physisist who created The Fermi Paradox which questions the apparent contradiction between the high probability of extraterrestrial civilizations' existence and the lack of contact with such civilizations. The Wikipedia geeks go into Drake and Fermi much better than I ever could, I'm not going to cut and paste links above. UFO's, definately, there has to be someone else out there with the same power of imagination to ask the same questions we do. Jeez, you'll have us question the existance of Nessie soon Link to whole thread...Clicky God - thought we banned religon ..... As has been said it's about faith whether you believe or not. As a kid of my generation, you had the religion thing beat into you predominantly by Grandparents. If you have the ability to think and use your imagination, you question everything. What little faith I had left by the time I reached my twenties was taken away for other reasons, I'm not going to go into. These days I find Priests/Ministers/Rabbi's/Imams (just to cover all the bases) etc at best sanctimonious at worst....well think how many wars have started with religion as their source. God, ghosts and reincarnation: well there's maybe something in them, I'll wait for the proof UFO's are different: - If you can't believe the science or the stats then start a creationist thread, the world was put here in the year 4004BC with all the geology in place for people to just trip over..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilc0 Posted November 8, 2008 Report Share Posted November 8, 2008 Click. Chilling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted November 8, 2008 Report Share Posted November 8, 2008 Lies damned lies and statistics. Ghosts, God and now UFO's...pulling out all the non-believer stuff here.Ghosts - Someone disprove it, there's no rational explanation of why things "happen" so until someone can disprove it..... UFO's - we've done this one before (bits of it below). Statistically we can't be the only lifeforms ever to have successfully colonised a planet therefore I firmly believe there are other beings out there. If you don't believe look at the stats...... Link to whole thread...Clicky God - thought we banned religon ..... As has been said it's about faith whether you believe or not. As a kid of my generation, you had the religion thing beat into you predominantly by Grandparents. If you have the ability to think and use your imagination, you question everything. What little faith I had left by the time I reached my twenties was taken away for other reasons, I'm not going to go into. These days I find Priests/Ministers/Rabbi's/Imams (just to cover all the bases) etc at best sanctimonious at worst....well think how many wars have started with religion as their source. God, ghosts and reincarnation: well there's maybe something in them, I'll wait for the proof UFO's are different: - If you can't believe the science or the stats then start a creationist thread, the world was put here in the year 4004BC with all the geology in place for people to just trip over..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neonsurge Posted November 8, 2008 Report Share Posted November 8, 2008 (edited) "I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith and without faith I am nothing." "But," says man, "the Babel fish is a dead giveaway isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves that you exist and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED." "Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that" and promptly disappears in a puff of logic. - Douglas Adams, HGTTG. Edited November 8, 2008 by neonsurge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian r Posted November 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2008 "Don't Panic" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy.t Posted November 8, 2008 Report Share Posted November 8, 2008 Fortunately some of our ancestors thought what you said above was a crock of sh!t and decided to look further, hence the discoveries made by scientists through time, culminating in the haldron thingy when they get it up and running again may actually tell us more about our origins.( http://www.crystalinks.com/scientists.html check this out)Until that time the sensible amoung us will realise that ghosts don't exsist and UFO's are just that not aliens from another solar system or whatever. Nigel Dabster,perhaps ghosts are infact images that are somehow stored and then repeated at some point in time, its not that hard to believe when you think we do similar things on video, perhaps this is an advanced type of history storage that we do not understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikespace Posted November 9, 2008 Report Share Posted November 9, 2008 Nigel Dabster,perhaps ghosts are infact images that are somehow stored and then repeated at some point in time, its not that hard to believe when you think we do similar things on video, perhaps this is an advanced type of history storage that we do not understand. That is entirely possible, and I think most of the atheist, non-believing, sinners on here will acknowledge that you can't explain away everything. There's lots we don't know. I do believe that electrical energy or some form of 'memory' that we don't yet understand can have a lot to do with many mysteries. What is a little far fetched is believing that because we don't understand everything, that it must be created by God, or it's a ghost. These are just a couple of 'ideas' thought up over the centuries by people with far less information than ourselves. There are millions of other ideas too. Just look at how many other religions there are around the world including the worship of trees, statues, the sun, the moon, and monkeys. Most of what was written about 2000 years ago has now been disproven, but we're still hanging on to some of these stories. Unfortunately it's all gone a bit far now, and a large percentage of the population are going to look a bit daft just giving up on these early throries. Now most of the atheist population sit here fairly quiet, not harping on about it, but every now and then, when a poor deluded individual pipes up and tries to push a historic theory down peoples throats, those of us who've had the courage to take the flak for thinking for ourselves for most of our lives have to come out and put over our argument. Our argument has probability on it's side, and we're not having to prove anything, because we don't have a belief that any higher body exists, we're just saying, why should we believe these highly unlikely stories? And while we're asking that, if you'd like us to believe, can you explain why you believe. The answer "Because it's the truth", or "because I have faith" doesn't cut the mustard. I love talking about it - I'm totally open minded, because if anyone can provide any reason to believe that any of this is true over any of the other millions of 'stories' then I'm right there studying it. I'm an atheist, but have read about the subject in detail, more detail than most religious people. I used to have more of an open mind than I do now, because nothing about religion is very convincing if you go in to it with an open mind. It does make me chuckle when religious folk say atheists don't have open minds. Most etheists would shift their stance tomorrow if the probability shifted in favour of religion, but how many religious folk would keep up their 'faith' even once religion is disproven beyond reasonable doubt? Oooh I do enjoy debating religion The frustrating side of it is the lack of logic from the other team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian r Posted November 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2008 Why debate it? Your too smart for religion. Gook luck my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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