old trials fanatic Posted December 30, 2008 Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 Always a hot potato this one. Just wondered what the panel thought. I was over at a friends the other day droping some parts off and noticed he was rebuilding / refurbishing one of the local guys bikes. Now the rider in question usually already wins all the local events he enters but i did notice the ignition that was going to be fitted to the rebuilt engine. I was particularly interested as i am rebuilding a spare engine to put into my James. So what in perticular interested me? Well i am currently running a PVL system on the James and was going to fit a similar system to the new engine but the one that was to be fitted to the James my friend was preparing had a switch facility whereby you could change the engine charicteristics at the flick of a switch. Mid section if required. My friend had tried a bike fitted with a similar system, not PVL by the way, and was most impressed with the ability to change from a soft power delivery to a much sharper punchier power output at the flick of a switch. I'm tempted i really am but where do we draw the line ? Is this one step too far? What do you think ? Should we be now fitting programmable ignitions ? apart from a discrete switch they are indetectable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big john Posted December 30, 2008 Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 My 1959 350cc Matchless has such a facility already fitted as standard! It's called an advance/retard cable! Run directly to the Lucas Competition magneto...ingenious! Big John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy m Posted December 30, 2008 Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 Hello OTF, if you have seen it at your mates place then it is obviously in use out there. "They" will say it is an up to date version of advance/ retard lever of course. Personally I wouldn't get involved with Pre 65 route myself, don't get me wrong I like to see them out there but not for me (maybe a trick bantam if pushed) but the politics is unreal if you are a tidy rider at a serious event. Whilst observing at Wye Valley road trial a couple of months ago I did spot a very light Ariel go through my section from up north shall we say. I did in fact observe 2 sections on the day but only saw him at the 1st, ignition failure I think was the reason why I never saw him at my 2nd section, and I bet it wasn't points, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_nc Posted December 30, 2008 Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 Well, I try not to be a "stick in the mud" but really do think that if you bike came with points you should be running points if you are competing in a vintage venue. I competed on a 59 BSA Bantam a couple of years ago and ended up fitting an electronic ignition due to difficulty in starting. Due to my poor riding I wasn't cutting anyone out of anything, but...... it still isn't right. I really don't think it's any different than up-grading shocks or exhaust. If it gives you an advantage over those in your class .....it's wrong. Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted December 30, 2008 Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 My friend had tried a bike fitted with a similar system, not PVL by the way, and was most impressed with the ability to change from a soft power delivery to a much sharper punchier power output at the flick of a switch. I really wouldn't bother Just another gimmick that riders are being sucked into thinking they need in order to improve the performance of their bikes and ultimately their results. I can't think of any classic trial with sections that would need this. The best and most challenging pre65 trials I've ridden were the Manx Classic this year and last year's inter-centre pre-65 team event. Neither needed a bike with variable ignition fitted. Seems to me that more and more 'necessities' are being marketed these days, all of which cost a fortune. I was looking at 2-stroke pre-65 bikes at last Sunday's classic trial that owe their owners thousands (as in > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee harris Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 Two stage digital ignitions are certinly not in the spirit of things, the question is do we need another rule? I think not for the following reason. If the guy has the money, see woodys remark, let him spend it. If he wants to tinker, I do, let him do it. The truth is a two stage ignition wont make a difference on his bike 8the ports and timing are pre 65 after all, low compression. OR, he can have the standard 5 PS on the hot setting and wind it down to 2,5 PS on the soft setting. If the guy cant adjust his gas hand to mud etc, let him go that way. Soton man did some serious testing on a 300 fantic engine (serious means not just riding in a field...is that better, worse...sharper...softer.... no he put the bike on a Dyno which does not lie if tests are done back to back). The results were that a fairly highly tuned fantic motor would only gain anything (either on soft gain, or hot gain) if the program was correct. I think I know who the manufacturer of the ignition is and the set up just isnt well enough dyno tested to make and real difference. it might spark but no real firworks. I rode the 2009 betas and couldnt tell a real difference even on that! Spend some serious time on ports, timing, scavaging and such and then 50 hours on a dyno and then he might get somewhere. I like tinkering for sure but my bikes are always dirty. i would spend more time cleaning them instead L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 Is this whole topic not just in parallel to what is happening in society in general ? Instant gratification, constantly wanting more, bigger, shinier. Get it on credit, worry about paying for it tomorrow. If it breaks, throw it away and buy a new one. Pre-65, in my opinion, should be an antidote to all the above. By the way I'm not 85, and didn't fight in the war etc. And I dont like tubless tyres either, so there. Note to self - new years resolution - stop being grumpy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big john Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 (edited) Wait to you guys see my totally eligible 325cc BSA Bantam that I am riding! I've even slipped one of those gardner flat slide carbs inside a genuine Amal Concentric outer casing just to get past the more stringent scruitineers tests in May. I heard they may even be asking the winner to strip his motor down and have it measured on the finish line after the event! Oh yes and I can safely boast that all my bikes are bought and paid for, I only ever touch my credit card when it's Wee Jean's birthday!!! Smug or what? Mind you with the amount of companies going down the tubes nowadays, I don't think I'll pay for anything unless it's on the card, that way you have half a chance of getting your dosh back! Happy New Year everyone! Big John Oh and if anyone wants one, I'm taking orders for replicas now at the very competitive price of Edited December 31, 2008 by Big John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted December 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 Some good answersthere lads not the usual rants. Must admit i hadnt thought about the advance / retard explanation Think i'll stick with the system i know PVL. However i've just "aquired" a points ignition Villiers engined bike so might just give it a go "back to back". Last one i tried which also had a cast iron barrel was errr totally gutless and pooo Love to see what the bikes we will be riding will be like in 2018 Happy new year toyou all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 Maybe a dumb question but out of interest, has/did anyone ever make gold plated points? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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