atomant Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 When I went to the Telford show recently, it was clear that over the early years of trial machines, there were many attempts at custom frame design/manufacture, with a few names still regularly spoken about on here. So it struck me, I am not aware of anyone who builds and sells custom frames for modern machines.( please put me right if there is ) Is this because the modern frame is so well constructed that people don't think they can improve on them, or is there just not the craftsmen about as there was 30 year ago? If you look at most modern frames, they can all be improved but..... at a cost. So, would people pay good money today for a custom lightweight frame for a modern machine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikey_boy Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 There has always being a guy near me (the flockton area) who builds trials frames for a living. About 8 years ago I apporached him to build a mountain bike frame for me, and he was very keen to give it a go. He mentioned then that he could build a frame for anything, it was just he only really got custom orders for the old stuff. He was quite old when I spoke to him so I do not even know if he is still working. Like I said though, he would have being willing to build anything, the frames he had in when I was there were extremely well made, the welding was perfect. I can't see why a frame like the new gasgas would be too hard for someone skilled to reproduce with their own take on it. BTW, he was building with T45 steel Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mont Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 Now youve got me thinking, how about a new frame for my gas gas in titanium. I am a fabricator just seems like their might be a market out there for someone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaz Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 like you say, is it that the current production models cant really be improved unless you can start with new innovations like beta with there new beam design for example. Or if you look at mountain bikes, the current frames tend to have a fluid formed design at the head tube or virtual pivot points - or even orange bikes have a besboke frame design like on their patriot frame. Can you really do anything that would give a noticable difference on a tubular design like the gasser? other than making it from titanium so its uber light?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaz Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 Now youve got me thinking, how about a new frame for my gas gas in titanium. I am a fabricator just seems like their might be a market out there for someone? great minds think a like there. you just got your post in a few mins before me!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted February 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 Can you really do anything that would give a noticable difference on a tubular design like the gasser? other than making it from titanium so its uber light?? Of course is the simple answer to that. The tubular frame on the gas gas is a lovely design combining weight reduction,strength and most important cost effective to produce. If you modelled a frame and tested its load characteristics, you would find just like a bridge, some areas would need more strength and some less depending on tension/compression criteria. Therefore, it would be possible to design maybe even a composite frame which would be a fraction of the weight of a current design.. but at a huge cost .. that's the downside So maybe there is some middle ground, maybe designing a frame to fine tune current designs then manufacture in exotic materials. This would be expensive but not as costly as the above option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul w Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 there are still frame builders out there, mostly specialising in a particular field, but surely the question would be, whats wrong with your frame now? in the 1970s and early 1980s it was widely accepted in road racing circles that to do well you had to junk the frame. there were literally dozens of frame manufactures making frames for the yamaha TZ and suzuki RG ranges. these were seen to be a vast improvement in handling and build quality. the same went for trials bikes but not on the same scale. Majesty, beamish, ect. if i was to get a frame built for my beta i would hazard a guess at about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 I thought the problem with Titamium was that its to brittle. (Cue - your talking crap etc etc) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted February 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 I thought the problem with Titamium was that its to brittle. (Cue - your talking crap etc etc) I think you are referring to magnesium as per gas gas swinging arms Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted February 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 there are still frame builders out there, mostly specialising in a particular field, but surely the question would be, whats wrong with your frame now?in the 1970s and early 1980s it was widely accepted in road racing circles that to do well you had to junk the frame. there were literally dozens of frame manufactures making frames for the yamaha TZ and suzuki RG ranges. these were seen to be a vast improvement in handling and build quality. the same went for trials bikes but not on the same scale. Majesty, beamish, ect. if i was to get a frame built for my beta i would hazard a guess at about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 I think you are referring to magnesium as per gas gas swinging arms My brother had a pair if wheels with titanium spokes (racing cycle) very strong and light, but didn't like shock loads, as he found out. This was at least 15 years ago, and I haven't heard much of this material being used in that application since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 Personally I believe the current "mass produced" frames from GasGas, Sherco, montesa, Beta, Scorpa, and yes even Xispa, and Greeves, are just fine for the average club man rider. Even those that ride Local "Expert" class and Lower classes at Nationals. But there may be a market for lighter, stronger frames in the realm of U.S. Pro class and Expert class Nationals, The top 2 classes of European National Events and of course the World Rounds. But is that enough of a market to justify start up costs, taxes, labor, etc. etc.....? I think I would enjoy a skid plate made from Titanium...........AAHHH the beautiful sparks when skidding across a rock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 I think I would enjoy a skid plate made from Titanium...........AAHHH the beautiful sparks when skidding across a rock. I think I would enjoy a helmet made from Titanium...........AAHHH the beautiful sparks when skidding across a rock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 B40RT Posted Today, 09:14 AMQUOTE (ZIPPY @ Feb 8 2009, 02:05 PM) * I think I would enjoy a skid plate made from Titanium...........AAHHH the beautiful sparks when skidding across a rock. I think I would enjoy a helmet made from Titanium...........AAHHH the beautiful sparks when skidding across a rock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monoped Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 I thought the problem with Titamium was that its to brittle. (Cue - your talking crap etc etc) Yep I agree with you B40RT, BSA made a batch of B50 motocrossers with Ti frames for their works riders, They all snapped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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