hillary Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Thanks Andy for putting it straight with regards to any possible MRS involvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostit Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 Leaving the Phil Alderson issue aside I wonder how fair returning to the 'Strict SSDT Rules' is to the clubman. From my experience in 1995 & 2005 the better riders can always gain time through the day due to better speed accross the moors, fitness etc.etc. If we return to strict rules I suspect that if their bike can't be fixed by them in park ferme it will disapear into the back of a van during the day and will emerge better than it was when it went in and the time loss will be minimal. Joe clubman on the other hand will return from a day doing sections which are beyond them on a bent bike only to find more pressure at the end and start of each day. I do not disagree with the sentiment of the SSDT being a reliability trial but added to the current severity of the sections, unsuitablity of modern trials bikes for big daily mileages, I fear the bottom end of the entry would end up finding it even harder to finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikespace Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 Not sure what you mean Bostit. If they returned to strict rules (i.e. made sure the existing ones were adhered to), the top riders wouldn't be able to put their bike in a van and nobody else could work on their bikes for them. I reckon it would even things up a bit more. I might have missed your point though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chewy Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 Nice to see we all getting geared up for another highland holiday. An observation I would add is that I have seen plenty of journalists hanging around (and possibly enjoying the hospitality of the big circus tents) who must by nature of thier job be well aware of the rules and what is going on ;perhaps they will say they havn't the manpower or independance to "whistle blow". For most of us it is a great sporting holiday but for the big top owners it is a serious business. It must be a fine line to manage this inbalance of interests. I have to agree with those who hark back to the good old days when we were riding..it were so tough!!!.. the club appeared to have a"benevolant sponsor", some guys would do anything for results (no change there),but most entrants (as now) were simply sportsmen with similar ambitions but at least you could get into the car park with your trailor or bike rack and tools. By and large todays system ;(as in yesteryear) works for everyone as it has to be one of those situations where you have to manage with the "tools" available. On a practical note I would ask all to remember that the whole event is run largely on goodwill which is a fragile commodity, to be mindfull of others for example...If I 'm abserving a section out on the moors just after a fuel stop I can expect to to pick up a sackfull of litter and carry it as well as the markers and lost backpacks etc on my back in the interests of goodwill. First priority after that is to get the books in (results are needed ASAP) then sort out my bike /fuel/ problems. That sack of litter adds an extra 30 minutes or so to my 10 or 12 hour day and of course by the time I get in the service tents are closed. Finally I have to say that Phil Alderson over the years I've known him has been one of the most considerate and thoughtfull nice guys on the trials scene in general and this mistake is a shame, perhaps if he definitly isn't going to get ride and as an atonement he could offer his service as an official for this year he would be a most welcome asset in my team...a "works" observer..whatever next!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 Maybe the bikes could be chipped in a tamper evident holder. These things are small and cheap and there is no way to cheat if they were used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
totalshell Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 a couple of points of interest to me as a clubman. 1. i dont have an issue with rider x blowing his bike to bits/ been unlucky and then riding the remaining days on another bike.. the issue for me is taking the award. riding for no award is fine in my book. 2. if i got back on the end of the 4th day and a fork seal had blown and i had two flats and my airbox was full of moor and loch i'd be glad of the help and support that my credit card could purchase at my bikes importers.. 3. major components should not be changed (engine/ carb/ fuel tank/wheels) without dropping from the awards. but if mr. J lampkin and his boys or ms sandiford and her crew can get me out on a serviced and safe bike thats fine in my book Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groucho Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 Well everybody else has had their say - I may as well chip in Yes, he was pretty feckin stupid to use the second bike, (especially as it was a totally different bike). He's not a bad lad - how many of the top boys do you reckon could say they've never broken a single rule in the SSDT. I wouldn't have thought too many. The fact that nobody blew the whistle suggests to me that most of them have a bit of a conscience (some of them would have a bloody cheek to protest after what they've done themselves). This one's been blown out in the open, and people seem to be jumping on the band wagon. It's unfortunate if it was so feckin obvious that it wasn't picked up during the week. People keep saying he got caught, but I'm sorry - looks like to me he didn't get caught - the rumours spread afterwards, and everyone jumped on the band wagon. Very silly thing to do, but it's getting a bit out of hand. If you're so feckin upset, then offer your services as a machine examiner next year. Within the club itself I can understand a bit of upset, as it brings things in to disrepute. If it's been proven, then someone should have a word and get the award stripped, if it's within the rules to do so. If not, it's a bit feckin late to keep whinging about it now I think. Let's see some whistle blowers this year then, everybody's got a camera phone. If we want the cheating cut out, you have to do it across the board - gets tricky to judge 'levels' of cheating. Otherwise, you're either caught and penalised, or you're not caught. I don't agree with cheating, but I don't agree with unofficial witch hunts either. Anybody care to bring up any rule deviations in the last few years at the Scott???? well said bikespace - you're right - the fact is that he did not get caught - if he had he would have had a letter stuck on his bike in the morning telling him so and excluding him from the results. I know someone who missed out a bit of the moor going over to Craig Lundi in 1999 - should I publically name him and ask him to hand his award back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosey Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 (edited) Crikey .... SSDT, just like most trials, has always been full of cheating... Bike swaps etc. It can only be stopped if there is an official at every point and they are not biased: Lampkin stood around in Kinlochleven whilst others worked on his bike. Saunders pretending to ride a 160 or 200 Gasser when it wasn't etc. etc. Then there was all the bike swaps in British champ rounds... Colley once swapped a Beta in the Colmore (I think the Colmore)... he had a dirty bike then at the next section a clean one ... So changing to a different bike in the Scottish is no different. Trials doesn't have the resources to pretend its big time to have all this patrolled . Cheats know they are cheats and so do others. However the cheats must think others are thick to try some of the things! What is the difference in changing a bike to moving flags in sections when the observer is not looking or riding a boggy section 4 times on the trot as it will get worse. All these are against the rules and falsify the result. Edited February 17, 2009 by Rosey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_scorpa3 Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 Which is what the thread is all about. Cheating! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizardofos Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 Crikey .... SSDT, just like most trials, has always been full of cheating... Bike swaps etc. It can only be stopped if there is an official at every point and they are not biased:Lampkin stood around in Kinlochleven whilst others worked on his bike. Saunders pretending to ride a 160 or 200 Gasser when it wasn't etc. etc. Then there was all the bike swaps in British champ rounds... Colley once swapped a Beta in the Colmore (I think the Colmore)... he had a dirty bike then at the next section a clean one ... So changing to a different bike in the Scottish is no different. Trials doesn't have the resources to pretend its big time to have all this patrolled . Cheats know they are cheats and so do others. However the cheats must think others are thick to try some of the things! What is the difference in changing a bike to moving flags in sections when the observer is not looking or riding a boggy section 4 times on the trot as it will get worse. All these are against the rules and falsify the result. What a ludicrous post. People have been thieving since the world began. Do we shrug our shoulders and let the thieves get on with it, or moblise whatever resources are available to prevent it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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