big john Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 Why is it some people are queuing up to slate the red-right,blue left system?I rode a Stevenson club trial last week with 3 routes.Red and blue for the standard route with white cards for A route deviations and yellow cards for C route deviations.Are far as I am aware everyone had a good day,no-one rode the wrong route.Job done. Ok,it was just a small club trial on a small piece of ground and there was not a lot of scope for many multiple route deviations so mainly one route with some harder/easier parts. So with this new coloured marking system a small trial like this where it is mainly one route,to put in even 3 routes and not the four proposed,Most of these sections would need all these colours together either side to let everyone know where to ride. Setting a trial out like this is going to take more time and more markers,and some people will say,stuff that and not set out anymore.Valuable helpers lost and more work for the few that take time out to ensure we all have a day out on our bikes. I have never slated the red/blue marker system, in fact I grew up with it! Red/Blue was perfect when all riders rode one route, then along came a certain Mr Gavin Johnston and Mr Les Winthrop who absolutely outclassed the competition at that time. It was still quite acceptable when two routes named 'A' & 'B' with splitter cards, evolved in the late 1980's/early 1990's but now that we have to cater for more classes with three or more routes, the red/blue boundaries simply get too confusing with the ever present chance that riders stray onto the wrong route. Davy, you say that you rode recently a trial with three routes with no problems, I don't doubt that for a minute, but the main problem was that clubs have had no direction from their governing body and have evolved their own variations. You have actually 'hit the nail on the head' without even knowing it, a total lack of a unified system clearly stated for all riders to become familiar with! Riders have been objecting to having to concentrate on different sets of colours at a variety of events. We are now running combined Adult/Clubman and Support championship classes in Scotland and clubs have a duty to cater for their paying customers...the riders. They should also be issuing clear instructions to their observers. By not having a uniform system, the SACU was seen as being unhelpful, that has now been corrected and in time for the opening round! The main problem was that different clubs used different colours and the plea from at least two dozen riders in Scotland (that I spoke to personally over the 2008 season, including a top Stevenston competitor!!!) was that there should be a universal colour scheme for all trials run under the SACU auspices (I also have copies of letters from SACU club secretaries who took the trouble to feedback suggestions to improve the sport, who have asked for this also) Sure there will be teething problems until everyone is conversant with it. Whether that is how to carry the markers or pins in a haversack or just getting to know the mechanics of it.... All I am saying is this: Give it a chance...don't knock it until you've tried it! Big John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pa. Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 We in back water Australia have since I have been involved in trials around 1976 have always had the same coloured splits around the country. The riders name plates are coloured to their grade which match the colour of their splits. This makes it easier for all to see if the rider is following their correct line. Our colours are A Grade = Red, B Grade = Yellow, C Grade = Blue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinnied Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 In Ireland , we use bibs Grade A - Blue. Grade B - Red. Grade C and Junior A - Yellow. Clubman ( Grade D, Vintage and Twinshocks ) and Junior B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 Go for it Big John. Its good to see some leadership at the top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_scorpa3 Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 Go for it Big John. Its good to see some leadership at the top Sometimes our elected leaders just have to go out on a limb and make a tough call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timp Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 I think it would be good if the ACU were to provide a recommended system for flag route marking. Not compulsory but over time clubs could consider moving to it rather than forcing change. The main problem I have with flags are the old, worn out or mucky type which are difficult to see. I am partly colour blind so worn out red flags in grass are virtuallly invisible to me!! Also a local club uses bamboo cane with green,red and blue tops. Now they are difficult to see. Check if you are colour blind here http://www.toledo-bend.com/colorblind/Ishihara.asp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chewy Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 Its interesting to find out of the few contributors to this forum that I'm not alone with my difficulty with red on green. Even if Acu offer guidlines and they are gradually adoted by clubs expect a troubled transition period . I know that every time I go to ride abroad where they use colour coded routes through sections I am going to ride twixt a red and blue gate by mistake (40 years of one system is a lot to forget). I think we can all agree that it's high time some guidance was offerred for the rank and file punters of the ACU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 I think we can all agree that it's high time some guidance was offerred for the rank and file punters of the ACU. And how hard can that be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_scorpa3 Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 And how hard can that be In theory it should just be a case of..... "these are the rules as from....." In practice, this rarely seems to be the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 In theory it should just be a case of..... "these are the rules as from....."In practice, this rarely seems to be the case. I think Big John will make it a success and I hope his team of people get 100% behind it and get it through as smoothly as possible. In years to come people will wonder why it was never done earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfoot Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 Why is it some people are queuing up to slate the red-right,blue left system?I rode a Stevenson club trial last week with 3 routes.Red and blue for the standard route with white cards for A route deviations and yellow cards for C route deviations.Are far as I am aware everyone had a good day,no-one rode the wrong route.Job done. Ok,it was just a small club trial on a small piece of ground and there was not a lot of scope for many multiple route deviations so mainly one route with some harder/easier parts. So with this new coloured marking system a small trial like this where it is mainly one route,to put in even 3 routes and not the four proposed,Most of these sections would need all these colours together either side to let everyone know where to ride. Setting a trial out like this is going to take more time and more markers,and some people will say,stuff that and not set out anymore.Valuable helpers lost and more work for the few that take time out to ensure we all have a day out on our bikes. We at the Bon Accord Club have run four routes even at club trials for the past four years using red/blue for the main route and green/green for expert splits, white/white for inters splits and yellow/yellow for beginner splits. It's works really well and seldom if ever causes confusion. Like has been said earlier the actual laying of the flags is important especially with many splits but it can and does work. I would have preferred it if the SACU had gone with this or something very similar but having said that I'm sure the Bon Accord club will change and quickly adapt to the new system. On the flags themselves we use the york survey flags that Rappers so hates for marking the route between section and good old fashioned A5 sized stiff plastic card (like the SSDT) for the sections themselves. These are heavy to move when you have a lot of them but are worth it in section clarity. When you get splits and joins in a section you dont need to put them all side by side as someone suggested just lay them fanned out like a pack of cards. I'm hoping to ride the first championship round to use the new system and will be interested in seeing how it looks and feels. I wont be able to complain no matter what cause its my own club running it (and no one would listen anyway, they never do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neils on wheels Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 and the worst end markers ive ever seen, guess what they were? Two old jumpers Jumpers for goalposts? Brilliant!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapshot 3 Posted March 29, 2009 Report Share Posted March 29, 2009 (edited) Okay, so a follow up. 1st round of the Scottish Champs today and the new system works and works well. By the second lap there were comments of why didn't we do this years ago. Even folk who I know questioned it were happy with it by their second lap. It took FOUR of us 6 hours to lay out yesterday and each of the routes was about right in severity, put it this way, we didn't hear much in the way of complaint at all. My original comment in this thread was that if clubs don't try to move things on the sport will never move on, this system works and works pretty damn well. Nice one Prof.... Edited March 29, 2009 by Slapshot 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hillary Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 I've entered for the Ian Pollock next week and have put on the entry form a request for guidance to a rider who is over 50 and normally rides what in England is classed as Clubman Easy. Will that be the green flags? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 Okay, so a follow up.1st round of the Scottish Champs today and the new system works and works well. By the second lap there were comments of why didn't we do this years ago. Even folk who I know questioned it were happy with it by their second lap. It took FOUR of us 6 hours to lay out yesterday and each of the routes was about right in severity, put it this way, we didn't hear much in the way of complaint at all. My original comment in this thread was that if clubs don't try to move things on the sport will never move on, this system works and works pretty damn well. Nice one Prof.... Above I said In years to come people will wonder why it was never done earlier... I didn't expect them to say it by the second lap though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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