Week 109 - Why The Scores Differ

[Andy]

I

[tony27]

This may not be popular but here in New Zealand no score on a card means a 10, makes you check your card before handing in. If it's missed you'd better be able to prove you rode it & have someone verify you did

[hillary]

We use observers cards so the responsibility of getting a score rests with the observer not the rider. It's the only snag with using observers cards rather than punch cards. Punch cards hold up the trial too much as witnessed at the Cleveland yesterday. The Cleveland sections were extra long and most had only one observer/puncher which equals big hold ups and then you are tight on time!!

[chewy]

I thought the fun was riding the trial not trying to get best score by any means. What breed of self interested *ossers are we bringing on? You can't say fairer than you already have re completing scoresheets.

[tilertrialler]

surely if you miss a section for whatever reason its a 10 ,no question. maybe if the trial was too hard ,you should think about the second route option as on most tradional rounds. jut a thought.

[ishy]

Doesn't giving a rider the average score for the section encourage them to miss if down on time, if the section is tough or an hassle to get too, why bother going to it, I could get a three if I ride it, and probably the same if I didn't.

Not many who ride the Scottish want to collect an extra fifty points for missing a section, if they only got five or an average of their score wouldn't it make a joke of the job?.

I have always thought being leinient isn't fair on the riders who do ride the whole course and attemp every section.

[wri5hty]

The Cleveland sections were extra long and most had only one observer/puncher which equals big hold ups and then you are tight on time!!

Is that a official whinge Mr rapley. I hope it didn't spoil your day. trust me we do try and get two people per section, to avoid the hold ups but starting to think observers should be put on the endangered species list.

we have a list of observers names and phone numbers that gets shorter every year due to ill health, old age, whatever. We do gain some new ones but not as many. The club and i would never turn down the offer of help from observers so if anyone reading this would like to put themselves forward for a section next year please contact me it would be appreciated.

[pete_scorpa3]

Doesn't giving a rider the average score for the section encourage them to miss if down on time, if the section is tough or an hassle to get too, why bother going to it, I could get a three if I ride it, and probably the same if I didn't.

Not many who ride the Scottish want to collect an extra fifty points for missing a section, if they only got five or an average of their score wouldn't it make a joke of the job?.

I have always thought being leinient isn't fair on the riders who do ride the whole course and attemp every section.

I have to agree with you there ishy.

I always think that once we take the entry fee off a rider, they become a customer and we want to give them value for money. That means treating them fairly and correctly as far as is possible and not rewarding others who have missed sections with a lesser score than those who have given it a go and failed.

Asking for a five is fair enough, but missing a section should be penalised heavily, that way we encourage riders to at least make the effort to get there and take a look.

[rosey]

Do know what? ... If you thank the observer and check that you've finished its a pretty good way to ensure your card is complete and amazingly shows some appreciation to the observer as well.

[hillary]

What you are all missing is this. I sit down of an evening with ten observers sheets from a normal club trial. You know that a rider has completed the trial but there are scores missing. I also know that in many cases the score is missing because the observer has missed his number/been chatting/taken a drink/etc.

So what do I do? If I put 10 down, within five minutes of the results being seen the rider will be on the phone. So I take the easy way out. Inevitably, the few riders that "fiddle" the system get away with it, but if I put a result down, I at least have a peaceful week and I don't upset my observer by phoning him and asking if he can remember what Joe Bloggs did on his section.

Whilst I know that a few of those that post on here act as a secretary/organiser, the vast bulk don't so until you are in the position of doing the secretarial work for a trial, think it through!

And the reason why we still use observers cards rather than punch cards is that you get a decent set of results in a short space of time. Those that use punch cards simply list a total and finishing position, which purely on a personal level, I think is slack and not good enough. At least I can safely sit here and write these things because nobody can point the finger at me and say I'm moaning about subjects and not doing my bit.

Punch cards hold up a trial, rarely are they transcribed into a complete set of results and I do like to sit down and peruse a proper set of results to see where I've had a good ride and perhaps more frequently, where I've been thoroughly thrashed.

Edited March 16, 2009 by Hillary

[pete_scorpa3]

For the Colmore cup, we have persevered with punch cards but the time is coming when it's not going to be possible to fill all 80 positions (with punchers and observers) but for now we stick to it because it allows us to issue the result as soon as the last rider finishes.

Richard Gill is the secretary of the meeting and it takes him many hours to turn the totals on the punch cards into a section by section set of results, we are lucky to have someone who is prepared to carry out this time consuming task and he does it very well.

As far as filling in missing scores is concerned, obviously common sense has a part to play. However, this should not become a regular occurance in my opinion, as it is likely to encourage foul play. I'd bet that every one reading this has at some point been given a score that was not correct by an observer, how many of us own up if it's in our favour? You have to be prepared to give and take with trials, it's part of the sport... the old saying "you win some, you loose some," will always apply so long as we use volunteers to judge out scores. And don't forget an unwelcome 'five' for missing a section is far better than being marked down as 'retired.'

In a multi lap trial, there's nothing wrong with checking thay we've completed four laps and thank the observer for observing.

[nigel dabster]

For the Colmore cup, we have persevered with punch cards but the time is coming when it's not going to be possible to fill all 80 positions (with punchers and observers) but for now we stick to it because it allows us to issue the result as soon as the last rider finishes.

Richard Gill is the secretary of the meeting and it takes him many hours to turn the totals on the punch cards into a section by section set of results, we are lucky to have someone who is prepared to carry out this time consuming task and he does it very well.

As far as filling in missing scores is concerned, obviously common sense has a part to play. However, this should not become a regular occurance in my opinion, as it is likely to encourage foul play. I'd bet that every one reading this has at some point been given a score that was not correct by an observer, how many of us own up if it's in our favour? You have to be prepared to give and take with trials, it's part of the sport... the old saying "you win some, you loose some," will always apply so long as we use volunteers to judge out scores. And don't forget an unwelcome 'five' for missing a section is far better than being marked down as 'retired.'

In a multi lap trial, there's nothing wrong with checking thay we've completed four laps and thank the observer for observing.

This is a pet hate of mine whilst trying to ride my last lap 3 or four people going round seeing what there scores are and distracting the observer while I'm waiting to ride. grrrrrgh

[pete_scorpa3]

This is a pet hate of mine whilst trying to ride my last lap 3 or four people going round seeing what there scores are and distracting the observer while I'm waiting to ride. grrrrrgh

I wasn't suggesting that you ask the observer to add up the scores, simply check with them that you've completed the last lap. It is suprising when you do this how often you still have another lap to do, or even find out that you did an extra one (even though you know you've done it the correct number of times.)

Finding enough willing/able observers is by far the worst part of running any event in my experience, but that's going off on another issue......

[bilc0]

I was going to say punch card's is the best method.But then i thought there's alway's going to be one rider that goes off and buy's aload of punche's to bring with him,he does one lap to see what shape punch is being used on each section then goes off and hides in the bush to punch the rest of he's card clean,ideal he could be back home for lunch.

[copemech]

As we do not use observer cards here for the most part, I would still think it would be up to a wink and nod to assure the rider got scored properly before the start of another rider.

You cannot just simply carry on if the observer is ai a p*** or something, there must be some checks or balance here, less the riders suffer for their missed sections! One cannot be properly observed untill he is acknowleged at the start! Or punched at the end!

No excuses would still be the rule! Even a moment of eye contact and number flashing would normally suffice I would think. Still the riders responsibility in either case if he desires to be scored properly!

The ones that want to ride through without acknoweledgement or confirmation are likely to me to be the type that want a slide-by anyway.

Edited March 19, 2009 by copemech