hensley Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 As a newcomer to the sport 6 years ago I had this idea that with the computer age and trials forums that trials was going to get a shot in the arm as the rest of the country learned of the sport and grow. There was a lot of talk Michlin, Alan B and others cussed and discussed the best plan to grow the sport and even if the sport needed to grow. Many said Trials is what it is it wont grow and it wont die at the time and didnt necessarly agree with that statement but im starting to come around. Here is the problem from where i live (sw missouri) there is/was 5 clubs within 300 miles the avg attendence for a club event is as roughly as follows club #1) 25 riders 3 under 18 club#2)30-35 5 or so under18 club#3)25 1 under 18 club #4 around a dozen 0 under 18 club#5) 5 riders 0 under 18 now defunct ??? at least no events. I got up in the middle of the night last night and got on the natc site and spent a half an hour looking at numbers here is what i found # of riders at us nationals pro exp total 09 ny 5 11 90 09vt 5 9 83 09 tn 8 7 101 09ne 8 8 101 08co 8 16 109 08mn 7 12 94 06 az 7 13 123 06 ok 8 10 108 06 tn 10 9 152 06 8 12 137 06 8 12 108 2000 rd2 11 11 124 2000 rd4 8 10 108 2000 rd6 10 9 152 2000rd8 8 12 137 2000rd10 8 12 108 So attendence at the nationals has dropped in the last decade does that mean trials is dropping nation wide or just the desire to participate in a national is dropping. One interesting point i found from talking with a member of the New Mexico club they had 107 riders at their last club meet (yes Club meet) with several youth riders and one of their problems at the last meet was bottlenecks even with a am/pm format. I dont know what they are doing down there but it seems to be working. Anyone have any ideas?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joekarter Posted August 1, 2009 Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 I'm not sure about folks competing at the nationals, but I think the sport has two issues that are really holding it back in America. The first is cost. While the bikes today are really unbelievable and well worth the asking price when you look at the technology, they simply cost too much to attract a wider base on the entry level side. And, because of the small size of the trials community, there is a scarcity of used bikes that keeps that option high priced as well. I'm really hoping the success of the economy models that GG and Sherco sold earlier this summer, opens some eyes to the marketability of a less expensive model. The second issue relates to the importer/dealer/parts and accessories supply issues. I've talked with a number of folks who attempted to come to the sport from other hobbies, and were amazed at what most of us go through to find a bike and then buy the parts and accessories to keep it running. Very different from say motocross or karting. All that said, the trials community is a great bunch and the folks involved on the business side are undoubtably doing the best they can with what I'm sure is a very difficult situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copemech Posted August 1, 2009 Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 I'm not sure about folks competing at the nationals, but I think the sport has two issues that are really holding it back in America. The first is cost. While the bikes today are really unbelievable and well worth the asking price when you look at the technology, they simply cost too much to attract a wider base on the entry level side. And, because of the small size of the trials community, there is a scarcity of used bikes that keeps that option high priced as well. I'm really hoping the success of the economy models that GG and Sherco sold earlier this summer, opens some eyes to the marketability of a less expensive model. The second issue relates to the importer/dealer/parts and accessories supply issues. I've talked with a number of folks who attempted to come to the sport from other hobbies, and were amazed at what most of us go through to find a bike and then buy the parts and accessories to keep it running.Very different from say motocross or karting. All that said, the trials community is a great bunch and the folks involved on the business side are undoubtably doing the best they can with what I'm sure is a very difficult situation. I know where you are coming from, yet there are lots of very competitive bikes out there(from this decade) at reasonable prices. And I really cannot think of too many things that I could not pick up the phone and have delivered to me within 24-48 hours, many parts are interchangeable with other bikes even. Motocross, Enduro and CrossCountry are all HIGH IMPACT, sports! If you take a good spill, chances are it may well take more to fix you than the bike! I have a good friend at work that has two kids now into Karting. We work on them, one a 50cc, another a 100. Talk about too many rules and regulations, expensive overpriced crap to compete on a high level! All these computerized thingies and such. Oh and then the protests on motors, and teardowns and such, the overzealous dads with too much money, list goes on--insane! They try to make a kids cart a NASCAR piece almost, just not for me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy Posted August 1, 2009 Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 Just an opinion of mine, The US has historically enjoyed motor sports that are high speed or huge air or both (supercross). Trials for the most part is slow and precise. The youngsters that ride bikes like the speed and adrenaline of moto X, Enduro, etc....As the riders age (I have heard this next statement from many trials riders older than 25) they say "I am tired of big crashes, getting hurt, and rebuilding my bike every 6mos to a year. So they enter trials. When they do start riding trials these riders are having such a good time and enjoying the camaraderie of the trials community that they wish they had done it sooner. I don't know how many riders the previous statement actually applies to but it does apply to some, maybe that is why we don't have as many youngsters as other motor sports. As for attendance at Nationals..........I don't know, I only attended 2 rounds (same weekend) so far (had a great time, I can still hear the guy behind me waiting for our names to be called to start on Sat. He said "That guy is wearing SHORTS! HAHAHA" And watching the PROs hit HUGE splatters was definitely a treat.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joekarter Posted August 1, 2009 Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 I know where you are coming from, yet there are lots of very competitive bikes out there(from this decade) at reasonable prices. And I really cannot think of too many things that I could not pick up the phone and have delivered to me within 24-48 hours, many parts are interchangeable with other bikes even.Motocross, Enduro and CrossCountry are all HIGH IMPACT, sports! If you take a good spill, chances are it may well take more to fix you than the bike! I have a good friend at work that has two kids now into Karting. We work on them, one a 50cc, another a 100. Talk about too many rules and regulations, expensive overpriced crap to compete on a high level! All these computerized thingies and such. Oh and then the protests on motors, and teardowns and such, the overzealous dads with too much money, list goes on--insane! They try to make a kids cart a NASCAR piece almost, just not for me! Please don't misunderstand, these are exactly the reasons I love being involved in this sport. I have scars and metal hardware o-plenty from my motocross years and your couldn't be more dead on with the comments on karting (and I go back to the dinosaur days in that sport ). The problem though is more one of perception and access, not for those of us who have been around the sport currently or in the past, but for total newbees. Taking motocross as an example, while those of us in the sport both know that buying a used MX bike (especially one of the four strokes) is the entry point to LOTs of spending, beginners see only the up-front costs. In our local area, there are currently two 2003 trials bikes on Craigslist for an average cost of $2,800. At the same time there are a gaggle of MX bikes in the same section for significantly less money. Do I think they're a better buy...nope, but I think for trials to grow we somehow need to be able get the word out to folks "looking for something to do" about how great the sport is, how less often they'll be visiting the emergency room (my wife has threatened divorce the next time ) and how much longer the investment they make is going to remain competitive. One of the things that I think would help to no end would be more exposure in the mainstream motorcycle magazines. While we in the sport dig up information about new bikes, riding gear, and information about events via forums like this or from friends who actually were there, MX, Enduro, Cross Country, and Dual Sport have an outlet right there on the grocery shelves every month. How cool would it be to open up the next copy of Dirt Bike and read about the kid from your trials club who just finished second at the nationals? I think Scorpa going under is a shame on so many levels (especially for the workers and owners involved) but it really looks from the outside to be a case of lost opportunity. While I know a number of folks disagree I for one thought the bikes were great looking, seemed to work as well as any other bike, and had a least the perception of being bullet proof due to the Yamaha engine. I've wondered from the first time I saw one though why there was no partnering with Yamaha on ads or flooring of the bikes (or maybe just colored brochures) in selected Yamaha shops. I know for me at least, it would have been a big incentive for buying a Scorpa if I knew I could walk into my local shop and order the thingy I just broke. Just some thoughts.....but to answer the original question of growing or dying, my take is currently stable, but not nearly at the level it could be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hensley Posted August 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 While the bikes today are really unbelievable and well worth the asking price when you look at the technology, they simply cost too much to attract a wider base on the entry level side. I think its the initial shock of a $7000 bike. I think all of us would agree if a harescrable or mx rider converted to trials they would save money at the end of the day the Mrs would be happy however she might have your bags packed when in the begining when $7000 was spent for a skinny litttle funny lookong bike arrived . 3 or 4 years ago i crunched some nubers and figured if i rode every weekend (4-5 hrs with friends some clearing and watching others ride 1 maybe sometimes 2 tanks of fuel) that it would cost $15 per week (10 yr old bike) $25 per week (0new bike) this was just bike cost and im not sure how acurate my figures are but looking at it from the $15 to $25 per week seems like good cheap fun. Ive noticed there seems to be real good demand for $2000 to $2500 used bike. One problem i can see is that if more new bikes arent sold the old ones will wear out. Im still amazed at New Mexico i looked on their website looked like at the last club event they had like a dozen junior 10 beginer and 16 novice (lloks like they are in a 1970s time warp). Is there anyone on the forum that is part of or familular with the New Mexico club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lineaway Posted August 1, 2009 Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 Official count at the last New Mexico event was 106 riders which might be a club record. We even were missing about 15 riders who rode the last event. Now a days it looks more like a national than a club trials. In fact we have too many new riders as our use permits top out at 80. Our succes comes from the fact that most families in our club camp for two -three nights at each event. We`ll have a total of 15 events with 6 events being two day events. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joekarter Posted August 1, 2009 Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 Official count at the last New Mexico event was 106 riders which might be a club record. We even were missing about 15 riders who rode the last event. Now a days it looks more like a national than a club trials. In fact we have too many new riders as our use permits top out at 80. Our succes comes from the fact that most families in our club camp for two -three nights at each event. We`ll have a total of 15 events with 6 events being two day events. Very cool. I rode for a bit with a club in Tucson in the late 70's, and the two day events were always the most fun and best attended. Tough on Mondays though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rlracer Posted August 1, 2009 Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 As far as new exposure I know that trials comp is getting ready to get bigger !!! along with trials it will expand out to include enduro's. Look for this to happen around November. A new trials bike is in line with a new motocross or enduro bike last time I looked. Most trials riders are really tight with there money as far as spending. I have seen 2 out of the 3 trials importers spare parts supply and can say is I was impressed with the amount of parts I seen. They have a lot of money sitting on the shelves for support of there product. With the euro and dollar exchange it does make the bike and parts a little pricey at times. A new trials rider looking for a used bike would be looking in the market of $1500 -$2000 now to find a used bike in good condition he's looking at $2800- $4000. Then you can look around most things have gone up over the years ! Look at what it cost to run a motocross or enduro bike for a year and trials is CHEAP ! I have seen alot of new trials rider in the past not return to ride another trials because the beginner or novice class was to hard or not fun. And when you try and tell the club that I know in this area they wouldn't listen, untill it was to late. The club in my area ust to have 40-50 riders ,I hear they have 10-20 now. And yes i'm not one of the club riders here now. One thing they do have is Jon Stoodly he goes around with the new rider to help them. I would hope every club has someone like him to help the new riders who show up for there first time. Flame on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the observer Posted August 1, 2009 Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 (edited) Trials has gone through peaks and valleys before. Manufacturers have come and gone, Trials has grown and shrunk. Its all part of the cycle. Edited August 2, 2009 by the observer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 the observer Posted Today, 12:44 PM Trials has gone through peaks and valleys before. Manufacturers have come and gone, Trials has grown and shrunk. Its all part of the cycle. This also applies to Global Warming....................... Yep it goes up, it goes down.....But it would be nice to walk into a moto shop and say hey I need a Kickstart for (insert bike here), and Part Guru goes in back and brings said Kickstart. TADA no shipping charge and you riding later that day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_nc Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 I truly don't know if it is growing or shrinking - our club has had slightly lower attendance this year but that is due to many factors. The comments on bike availability; Would seem that a manufacturer could make a bike that would use one of their stock engines (maybe some minor modifications at the dealership), a stock frame that with some minor mods (used on several bikes) and make a Trials bike available. The Yamaha TY series did a pretty good job of that. I would think some modern version of that could be worked out. It really would be nice to be able to go into a dealership and pickup a part. Might also give us some better 'club' support and national publicity. Taking the time to create a 'fair' Novice line is also a big item. Most of the club events that I have ridden in only give lip service to a Novice line. I rode with the experts in our last Trial (just because of numbers) and learned more in one Trial than I have in the past couple of years of riding. The guys took the time to show me my line, when to clutch or brake, and where I needed to be body-wise on the bike. Well, we are talking to the choir here, we are all going to continue riding anyway. Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joekarter Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 I truly don't know if it is growing or shrinking - our club has had slightly lower attendance this year but that is due to many factors.The comments on bike availability; Would seem that a manufacturer could make a bike that would use one of their stock engines (maybe some minor modifications at the dealership), a stock frame that with some minor mods (used on several bikes) and make a Trials bike available. The Yamaha TY series did a pretty good job of that. I would think some modern version of that could be worked out. It really would be nice to be able to go into a dealership and pickup a part. Might also give us some better 'club' support and national publicity. Taking the time to create a 'fair' Novice line is also a big item. Most of the club events that I have ridden in only give lip service to a Novice line. I rode with the experts in our last Trial (just because of numbers) and learned more in one Trial than I have in the past couple of years of riding. The guys took the time to show me my line, when to clutch or brake, and where I needed to be body-wise on the bike. Well, we are talking to the choir here, we are all going to continue riding anyway. Alan I know from discussions I've had in the past that the manufactures and industry folks look at forums a lot more than most of us are aware of. Discussions like this just might sway a corporate decision maker to fund a trials bike project that might have died somewhere along the line for a perceived lack of interest. I know for me, this discussion has given me some ideas for the next time I help set up a trials, and for ways that I might be able to help promote the sport. Along those lines, I've noticed that the spectators, and potentially new riders, are much more enthused when at least a fair amount of the sections are near the staging area. Not always possible, but definetly something to consider, especially with the beginner/novice sections where turning is more important than big ups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 (edited) Not sure how it is done in other areas of the country, but I think at the club level events there needs to be a loop specifically just for the bikes and a separate loop specifically for spectators. The "Bike Loop" could be nice and long and winding to help reduce line backups at sections and to "test" the longevity of the riders. The "Spectator Loop" needs to be the shortest distance between the sections, also as smooth and easily navigated as possible. This will make it safer for the spectators and easier for them to get to the sections. I have personally experienced when having my family come to an event to see me ride that when walking down the edge of the trail and this A**hole come flying down the trail and yelled for my boys to Move It and rode directly between them without slowing a fraction. He also came within an inch of his handlebars hitting my bars. The most aggravating thing about it was the "trail" was actually a wide Moto X track and he had about 15 feet or so to the side of us to go around. This is not the only "Speeding past walkers on the Loop" that I have witnessed it is just the most personal. If we provide a better Spectator Loop It will make it easier on the riders so they don't have to worry as much about encountering walkers on the trail. Also we may get more attendance, better exposure, and we will look like real nice people for giving an easy walk in the woods for the spectator. We can't grow if we don't have anybody to see what we do. Edited August 3, 2009 by ZIPPY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biffsgasgas Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 This is going to sound very selfish... I know that i will always be riding something over something regardless if there will be anybody out there with me. If there is a dealer left i will buy from them. If there are people willing to join me I will ride with them. If some one wants to learn how I will show them all that I know. I grew up with this sport and I won't stop trying it. In college i couldnt afford a bike but i got a hand me down enduro rd360 that i used as my commuter bike. I would ride trials with that almost every day to school. I got it impounded once because I was riding over the rail road tracks near college. What ever it takes I will ride. I know that there are others there like me and that is what keeps this sport alive. --Biff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.