Trials Growing Or Dying

[hensley]

It really sucks that Phil was left out of your story

Sorry about forgetting Phil . his hot lap times were right at the top quite a bit better than Pat if i remember right.. I think if the track wasnt so open and big we could of had 5 riders in the top 8 and maybe Ronie also joining them. Ronnie I think actualy crashed more often than Homer and Ronnie had the misfortune of having to go first on the hot laps before the track was broken in good. Another rider i didnt mention was Josh Nutsch he beat Homer in the trials cross and did it on a 125.

It would be nice to make it to another Endurocross South Carolinas is out and Denver is also out but Ohio a maybe 610 miles still thinking about i heard all the tracks were going to be tighter from now on.

Anyone out there planning on riding Ohio trialscross???

Edited August 19, 2009 by hensley

[copemech]

It really sucks that Phil was left out of your story. It's a shame Phil gets overshadowed by Pat, as Phil battled his ass off all night, too. He came in second in his semi race and is still in the top 20 in points. 15th to be exact.

Any good crach pics? from Phil?

[kjax]

Hi all, it's been a while, but I thought it was finally time to jump back in.

Here in MI we tried the Endurocross thing for three years...failed primarily due to poor attendance, which I really believe was due to the location of our club grounds in northern -mid michigan which is pretty much a "drive to" location (a few hours minimum for most who live in southern MI) as opposed to "drive by" location that would describe many of the succussful MX tracks all thruout southern MI. The off road club that I belong to (in additon to the trials club) has traditionally put on Hare Scrambles and Enduro events. In recent years we host a two day trials on the property as well. My point is that Endurocross is driven by the almighty buck, and it needs to be easily accessable to the masses. I think an Endurocross would work well on a local basis if it was run on the infield of one of the local MX venues.

On trials in general, I see it picking up some momentum here. Every sport is off somewhat due to the economy, but we are seeing new riders jumping into trials due to the fact that it is safer, cheaper and more accessable to the average working class rider. I can jump on my trials bike and play in the yard for an hour before dark - anytime I choose. Try that on my KTM 400XCW??? I think not. Last weekend was a perfect example as to why our local trials organization should be growing. I left the house at 7:30am, met up with my buddy (who is yet another "newbie" to the trials scene this year), stopped for a nice breakfast. Ended up at the trials early (before 10:00am) had plenty of time to look everything over. The event was in Windsor, Canada, but the border crossing was no problem. Ended up stopping off for burgers and a good canadian beer afterward with a small group and still made it home before 7:30pm. Only spent less than $50 for the whole day! - food, gas, sign up- everything. Compare that to an Enduro, supermoto, or a road race! Now as a contradiction, we had only 30 or 40 riders instead of the 50 plus we normally expect at most MOTA events. (might be due to the new passport requirment that went into effect recently) The MOTA now has 8-10 riders active in EX class, Sportsman has also grown. Several new riders in Nov and Int as well. So my vote is that trials is growing here in MI -

[dschigoda]

Wow, wow, wow! This looks like a great place to ride! Where in Idaho is this?

Dave

(Wisconsin)

[uhoh7]

Wow, wow, wow! This looks like a great place to ride! Where in Idaho is this?

Dave

(Wisconsin)

South central Idaho, near Sun Valley.

[michaelmoore]

Would seem that a manufacturer could make a bike that would use one of their stock engines (maybe some minor modifications at the dealership), a stock frame that with some minor mods (used on several bikes) and make a Trials bike available. The Yamaha TY series did a pretty good job of that. I would think some modern version of that could be worked out.

The problem is that trials, as with other parts of m/c sport these days, is too specialized.

In the beginning people were lucky to have a bike that ran at all, and since they only had one bike it was used in everything. Now the different elements of the sport have matured -- how much REAL change has taken place in MX, RR and trials bikes in the last 10-15 years? As far as I can see my 1985 CanAm/Armstrong/CCM 560 has the same basic suspension travel and dimensions as a 2009 MX bike. We're in micro-evolution from year to year now, not revolution. Line up trials and RR bikes from the last decade and Joe Punter is probably going to have trouble telling which one is new and which a decade old.

When I started riding in the very early 1970s the same basic engine was in all Bultacos, small to large, trials/mx/street/enduro. The differences were in the details of porting and compression and gearing. You could easily mix and match to hot up a Matador or Metralla or calm down a Pursang. There wasn't much significant difference (spring rates and oil viscosity) in front forks as all dirt bikes had 6-7" of travel in the front. Rear dampers were pretty much the same too - Girling, Koni or Betor for euro-OEM and Curnutt was about it for an aftermarket item. You could line up enduro, trials and MX frames side by side and see that the big differences were mostly in some tubes being a bit longer than others or angled a little differently, not that the frames were entirely different technology. Wheels were wheels, and Bultaco swiped the Sherpa T front wheel to put on the Pursang.

I had a 1971 TS185 Suzuki that I rode to uni and around town and also rode in my first MX and trials events. I rode my G80CS Matchless on the streets but also to a hare scrambles where I raced and rode home again, and I also trucked it to a farther away MX and raced it (and this was about 1972 or 73). I wasn't last in any of those events. That's not very likely nowadays.

With extreme specialization you lose economies of scale and the prices go up. As trials bikes and riding techniques evolve to meet ever harder obstacles, the obstacles in turn evolve to become harder. Unfortunately the meatware for most people doesn't seem to get much past Version 1.0.

EFI-equipped bikes can run sooooooo nice and smooth and powerfully, but with electronics they either work or they don't. They are pretty reliable now and run predictably for long periods, especially compared to an AMAL MK1 concentric. But the person who never worked on anything more complicated than a lawn mower could often figure out how to fiddle with a carb if it was acting up, while a lot of the new bikes have a multiplicity of sensors - water temp, throttle position, gear indicator, etc.

I like technology but it can be a PITA sometimes. I've got a YZ250F Yamaha MX engine I picked up for a project, and that thing would have qualified as roadrace GP technology when I was starting out. From what I hear modern 4T MX engines can be a lot more expensive and time intensive to maintain than a 1973 400 Maico. Cool stuff, but not for the newbie competitor. The Maico had enough power to make your eyes get pretty big.

Maybe it is time to turn back the clock to a somewhat less complicated era? Modern tech could probably make a really cool Sherpa T that didn't have a gazillion sensors, water pumps, exhaust pipe valves etc etc etc. Could making trials bikes 10-15 lbf heavier and mechanically more simple reduce the price of both purchase and maintenance significantly?

Maybe there needs to be two tiers of bikes? There could be the clubman version and the "OMG, that is soooo trick and soooo expensive!" limited production "pro" version for the few who really need it (or have money to burn). We've already got clubs running multiple lines so the pro bikes could run the super hard stuff and the clubman bikes can run what are at times already labeled "clubman" lines.

I don't see this as being a problem just for trials. MX has also gotten very specialized to where you may not want to do much trail riding on them. Oddly enough, for RR the current street sportbikes are so good that you don't need to much of anything to have plenty of fun in clubracing.

cheers,

Michael

[americanbeta]

Hello Everyone, This is a good question! I have been away from the sport for many years. (Hi Martin!) I keep telling my wife that I have no idea why? I went from being a MXer at a young age, I got involved with trials through Bob Miller.

Fast forward,,,I am 43 years young now and still riding and racing off road events. I am still in the industry as I import Beta Off Road and Dual Sport Motorcycles.

Here is my 2-cents worth why Trials is not growing:

-Very little magazine exposure. Now is the perfect time to introduce off road racers to trials as a second bike. Need to give the magazines a flood of bikes to test.

-I do not agree with the post in here about being too expensive. The bikes are expensive however they last much longer for a sportsman rider than an off road or mx bike. When I went from MX racing to Trials Nationals, Trials was Half the expense!

-We need more indoor events! Ones with major sponsors to bring in (and pay for) custom designed (like Europe) sections.

-What happened to the Nationals? There are only two locations? This is not a good thing.

Here is what I feel about trials:

-The greatest sport ever! It is mostly safe, you can have a blast in your back yard for hours

-Low impact on the earth

Anyway, it is late but I just had to pop in.

Tim Pilg

[hensley]

South Carolina Endurocross results. congrats to Taddy first Geoff Aaron 2nd Colton Haaker 5th.

Sure looks like there would be more crosstraining going on.

[paulthistle]

So promote the crosstraining.

Put on a trials sat afternoon or evening before a hare scramble or off road event.

Have a trials "Class" the day before a local hare scramble event.

Get (Buy) the gncc, worcs, ama offroad mailing list. Have a free class and test ride day at a local event.

Trials clubs buy a used bike and promote it's use by first timers. A fleet of small bikes?

Have a "Free ride day" at a club trials. Bring a newbie and ride for free. Shere your bike, tightwad.

So I read the "thinking outside of the box" post and Dale stole my ideas, a couple of weeks before I even thought them.

Edited September 17, 2009 by paul_thistle

[08300ggjaquish]

This is going to sound very selfish...

I know that i will always be riding something over something regardless if there will be anybody out there with me.

If there is a dealer left i will buy from them.

If there are people willing to join me I will ride with them.

If some one wants to learn how I will show them all that I know.

I grew up with this sport and I won't stop trying it.

In college i couldnt afford a bike but i got a hand me down enduro rd360 that i used as my commuter bike. I would ride trials with that almost every day to school. I got it impounded once because I was riding over the rail road tracks near college.

What ever it takes I will ride. I know that there are others there like me and that is what keeps this sport alive.

--Biff

amen when i was a kid i couldnt afford a dirt bike was given a honda CB 350 striped it down rode dirt snow and ice year round in TC

MICH took me 15 years to get GasGAS 38 yrs old but every time i ride i feel just like that kid again ride on invite everyone to come along