Converting Monoshocks To Twinshocks. Fair Or Foul ?

[jon v8]

Its coming on slowly Bo, a front sprocket arrived from BVM yesterday,but I've given up on the plan of riding it in the Dartmoor 2 Day.The trusty TY250 will be doing it again.Not given up on the Serow,I plan to ride it in the hard route at all the "difficult" venues,(Did I mention Golden Valley ? ) The rigid would be nice for the more gentle stuff like the Bath and Somerton Classic trials.Each one built and ridden is keeping it alive,and a big part of trials for me is seeing all the stuff going on besides riding myself.I reckon it would be a bit poor if it ended up with just trick Majesty's and Fantics - riding sections that really suit mono's.

[majdaz]

I stiil say why was it a controverial win?

Simon dropped the same amount of marks as Pete carson {who is also a friend} who was riding a macdonald cub, is that not controversial?

I dont think it is.

I sometimes ride against Pete and alot of the other local lads who also ride Macdonald cubs in the Unit class at local events, and to be quite honest I enjoy putting my C15 ,{what is now regarded as a heavy weight} bike up against them. You go to work all week and if tricking your bike up blows your skirt up (I know it does mine} Its all good. Its not controversial.

Regarding the ACU I dont think they are really that bothered. The rules are no discs and correct me if Im wrong but all parts must be "period". Check Nigel Birketts works Suzuki complete with yam mono wheels forks swingarm of which I dont have a problem with as with Chris Koch's cotswold. Both have two shocks ,drum brakes and are air cooled.

Remember you could still buy a Godden framed Majesty off Shirty well after the mono's came out so you could say all parts are period. My Majesty has a Mono front end but with a new billet yoke to bring the front in a bit. controversial? regarding the ignition thats, IT400 electronic from early eighties. Carb is 28mikuni vm circa 2007. Air in tyres is from last week!

I agree with Woody in that we ride bikes we have an affinity for, I grew up watching Kicksart and Junior Kickstart I cant remember seeing an Ariel or a Matchless compete at any event in fact my C15 is older than me! But why is it seen to be ok for the died in the wool pre 65 boys to trick there bikes beyond recognition{ of which I still have no problem}yet when a twinshock gets the treatment its "controversial". Yet when the sections these bikes were designed for become a bit tasty the cry "these arn't pre 65 sections the're twinshock!" is heard. Whats that all about?

You compare a standard 70's twinshock to a modern pre 65, the 70's twinshock is like riding a 5 bar gate ,we might not ride very often but we still love em.

My opinion is this if it gets feet on pegs at the weekends whats the problem? we have far bigger things to worry about like the current state of the economy, losing land not enough observers etc.

Ps cant wait till the recession ends so I can order my macdonald Cub

[dixie]

Some people need to win at all cost,And as stated it is good riders turning to twinshock who are being pushed off thair pertch in moder stuff by the bouncing trick kids, The go out and spend a fortune trying to make there bike run like a gas gas pro.

I found the exitement of teh exitment of twinshock by mistake after a serious road bike crash,But i for one am stopping using my trial winning fantic and riding a triumph 500 twin ,with no hope of an award because it is fun and i dont feel like i cheated.

Just remember if you keep the sections easy enough for the big bikes and not stiffen them up for the pot hunters they will get bored and not bother spending 4 grand on a CHEAT bike.

[ausy300pro]

I think you are spot on dixie, I have just acquired a majesty 175 it has modern shocks and an electronic ignition but the rest that has been done could have been done by any good engineer back in the 70,s and as long as the sections are not the hop and bop type I find it more rewarding to rid and needing more rider input than the modern bikes I have owned, I too find it a ridiculous state of affairs when riders convert a mono to twin shock, you might as well just get a 2010 gas gas raga and put twin shocks on that, where do you stop, it's a joke, the bikes should be of that period and type as originally manufactured, yes good ingenuity and excellent engineering but wholesale use of modern bike parts should not be allowed.

[old trials fanatic]

Well considering the original reason for starting the thread was Darrens posting asking why was it a "controversial" win ? Well i think two pages and counting proves it is a controversial subject at least.

I think i should add two things to the melting pot that give me concern with regard to the converting monoshocks issue. Firstly i am in the process of buiding a TY250B twinshock, a real one BTW, and an OSSA MAR with the intention of giving the James a rest as it really needs a rebuild. I am now wondering if there is any point as it would be a hell of a lot cheaper to just buy a TY250R and just convert it and incidentally a lot more reliable and competative.

Secondly and to me even more important is for next season the East Midland Centre Championship instead of as this year riders having to "opt in" by ticking a box on the entry form at each qualifying event they will automatically qualify simply by entering the qualifying event. Now Peak Classic in particular will again be hosting three rounds of the Classic and Twinshock Championship concurrent with the normal Club round so anybody riding the twinshock class will automatically score points in the ACU Championship. However ACU rules state that Twinshocks to be elegable must be originaly manufactured as a twinshock which a converted monoshock clearly isnt. It doesnt matter that it might be "period" or have a "twinshock" rear end grafted on it aint as originally manufactured as a twinshock.

Now if the status quo with regard to riders being alowed to ride these bikes in the twinshock class carrys on then i can see protests and chaos which will taint next years championship. Which will be regretable.

Like a friend of mines experience when he turns up at the Pre65 Scottish having clearly declared the bikes make up only to be told at the start that the bike was now no longer acceptable.

I just think, as i mentioned to Martin at Burrycliffe, that the matter needs considered thought and a decision as to the elegability of converted monoshocks should be sorted before not after the "horse has bolted" before next seasons championship.

I repeat i have no axe to grind either way as at the moment i only ride the British Bike Class not the Twinshock Class but no matter how "tricked up" a bike is this is a lot more than most people think of as "modifying".

Edited August 8, 2009 by Old trials fanatic

[dixie]

I tell you what would make a good twinshocker,Take the water pump off a 4RT fill the water jacket with oil and weld some fins on it put an oil cooler on the down tube connected to the old water in and out ,leave on the fuel injection bolt it in a fancy rs replica chassis with tubeless rear and bingo classic twinshock

[wherry]

Well, well. Browsing around look what I came across the other day:-

'Modern twinshock:

Twinshock trials is starting to become increasingly expensive, with cobbled up

[big john]

I'm not in favour of monoshock bikes converted to twinshocks, in fact to be blunt I'm totally opposed to the concept - full stop. I think its just taking the p*** to a new (modern) level.

I'm quite sure that one day there may be a class for air-cooled monos like the JCM; Yamaha TY250R; early Beta TR33 etc etc and lads will have fun riding them, but as Yamaha TY250R twin-shock, forget it!

I have a nice 1989 Yam TY mono and would never consider chopping it, in fact my eldest lad borrowed it and rode it at a Dunfermline SACU Support round a few weeks back, "just for the craic" and really enjoyed riding a bike that I bought when he could hardly walk, never mind ride a push-bike.

I have ammassed a fair number of twin-shock bikes over the past few years and it hasn't cost me a fortune, admittedly, I have spent a considerable amount of money on AJS, Matchless and Honda RTL bikes over the last 20 years for my own enjoyment and I have never bought any of my bikes as an investment, it's just because I like them and it brings enjoyment just owning them as well as occassionally riding them!

Big John

[totalshell]

with the sophistication been employed now in p65 its clear thaht from a cost perspective Ts has a lot to commend it air colled mono shocks even more so as they have no market whatsoever and yet garages are full of the things, i think grafting an air cooled motor into a twinshock is a decent proposal reliable and rideable fantics

however it is up to the law makers ( we cannot and never have made and stuck to our own rules) to provide clear rules

[jon v8]

I was chatting to a well known bloke in the twinshock trade on Sunday at the Bath "Classic" trial.Our conversation was about the type of bikes being ridden,there were no Pre-unit bikes at all,(That I saw anyway)the British stuff was all Cubs,C15/B40's and Greeves etc.Nice lot of twinshocks,all the usual Yams,Hondas,Beamish Suzuki's,Bultaco's and Montesa's - fine.

But what was really noticeable was the amount of new mono's,ridden by over 50's - all totally legit,mostly riding the easy route.It may be not my place to say but I'd rather see less of the modern bikes,it is afterall a "Classic" trial.And there are plenty of rides for owners of modern bikes.

The bloke I was talking to summed it up perfectly for me in saying not only does he like competing in the trial,but he also likes to see the other classics,talk about them - even smell them !

Its not like the sections are too difficult either,the easy route is generally marked out in a way that Pre unit rigids have a good ride without being stupid - and give less experienced riders on modern bikes the chance to get less than a 3 at every section.

[rogerroger]

however it is up to the law makers ( we cannot and never have made and stuck to our own rules) to provide clear rules

Agreed for national trials (the ACU could perhaps tighten up their rules).

But surely for club trials, it is up to the membership to decide whether these "specials" should be allowed/banned, and make their views known.

IMO Twinshocks are still cheap, given that they don't drop

[wherry]

This is what the 'Modern Twinshock' fans would have you believe is acceptable, and I quote, again from Classictrial:-

'We have decided to offer to convert suitable air-cooled monoshock machines to twinshock, which while not being allowed in ACU

Edited October 27, 2009 by Wherry

[bilc0]

What would our view be if someone made a modern day twinshock bike,would we let it ride with the twinshocks of the 70's--80's.It would probaly be lighter and more responsive than any old mono.

Im staying open minded on this,Give them there own class thats all i say.

I know FanticMan Bill Pye is working on such a project,looking forward to seeing it,he normally turns out quality.

[wherry]

Im staying open minded on this

Yep. Nothing wrong with that in the least.

Give them there own class thats all i say.

There you have it, in a nutshell.

[jon v8]

I really dont like the idea of converted mono's - let the air cooled mono's have their own class,I'll have a go in it when I' over 50 !

What concerns me more is the loss of the pre unit big bangers,I love seeing them at work in sensible sections - how can we encourage them back out again ?