nigel dabster Posted August 17, 2009 Report Share Posted August 17, 2009 JohnLovelly long story but i think you have completly missed the point????? JC has taken the time and trouble to list alot of points, and used fact and experience to back it up. What point has he missed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapshot 3 Posted August 17, 2009 Report Share Posted August 17, 2009 JohnLovelly long story but i think you have completly missed the point????? Think you're a bit harsh Dixie, if you want to move forward in anything you need to know what's happened in the past, that way you generally don't make dumb mistakes again. As always John's post are factually correct and when all the BS is flying around about the rules and possible changes the facts are important to get a proper starting place. New sensible ideas here......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telecat Posted August 17, 2009 Report Share Posted August 17, 2009 JohnLovelly long story but i think you have completly missed the point????? Looking at this post It seems you don't have much idea about Trials, who's involved and what they do. I'm finding your "insights" lacking and don't feel your posts are adding anything to the debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dixie Posted August 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2009 Looking at this post It seems you don't have much idea about Trials, who's involved and what they do. I'm finding your "insights" lacking and don't feel your posts are adding anything to the debate. duh its my post ,,, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dixie Posted August 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2009 Think you're a bit harsh Dixie, if you want to move forward in anything you need to know what's happened in the past, that way you generally don't make dumb mistakes again. As always John's post are factually correct and when all the BS is flying around about the rules and possible changes the facts are important to get a proper starting place. New sensible ideas here......... You are entiteld to your opinion as is everone else, We are talking about something that is already broken not my opinion its a fact, I am totally sure john gives 100% to his work but not everone is a rules and regs person,lots of people not just me think as trials riders we do not get all the support or backing we could from the acu,but that is a totally different subject,just because people may not agree with him or the acu doesnt mean there opinion is rubbish,how can you tell how much envolvement someone has in trials by there opinion is beond me,I for one will not slag him off ,but if he thinks world trial attendance is in anyway a guage of my involvment in trials as a rider or helper then he must be a verry clever man John i bow to your superiority.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted August 17, 2009 Report Share Posted August 17, 2009 You are entiteld to your opinion as is everone else, We are talking about something that is already broken not my opinion its a fact, I am totally sure john gives 100% to his work but not everone is a rules and regs person,lots of people not just me think as trials riders we do not get all the support or backing we could from the acu,but that is a totally different subject,just because people may not agree with him or the acu doesnt mean there opinion is rubbish,how can you tell how much envolvement someone has in trials by there opinion is beond me,I for one will not slag him off ,but if he thinks world trial attendance is in anyway a guage of my involvment in trials as a rider or helper then he must be a verry clever man John i bow to your superiority.. Whats broken in your opinion? I think john was suggesting that as you hadn't been to a WTC since way back that your opinion was not as valid as someones who had. I think most would side with John on that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john collins Posted August 17, 2009 Report Share Posted August 17, 2009 (edited) Dixie Edited August 17, 2009 by John Collins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gizza5 Posted August 17, 2009 Report Share Posted August 17, 2009 as trials riders we do not get all the support or backing we could from the acu,but that is a totally different subject For your hard earnt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_scorpa3 Posted August 17, 2009 Report Share Posted August 17, 2009 Yes it probably does take more courage for observers to give a five for stopping, (instead of last years 1) but it's a damned sight easier to explain the rules to a new observer five minutes before a trial starts. At club level, its definately the worst part of putting on a trial.... finding those observers. One thing's for sure, if we all go non stop I won't have to use so much boundary tape marking out a section just so that the top lads can't bounce into that six inch gap for a better line! Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dixie Posted August 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2009 Dixie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted August 17, 2009 Report Share Posted August 17, 2009 Hmmm - I have been giving this further thought ( o dear you all say ! ) and I have tried to look at it from the Punters viewpoint. We currently have 2 sets of rules in place to cater for each of the preferences , Stop or No-Stop - The local club decides what type of trial to run assessing the following main points: 1: What type of terrain they have available 2: What is the make up of their local riders (youth - O-40's etc etc) With this information they can then decide which type of trial to run to cater for their customers. If the punter levels are dropping, then there is something wrong (obviously),but with the rules just being one component of the whole trial experience at that particular club, then I would argue defining the rules alone to just one type is not the answer ( if the objective here is to grow the sport) I certainly don't have the detailed knowledge of John Collins or many other knowledgeable folk on here regarding trials, but I do know how to run a successful company and customer service and quality of your product will help to keep the customers coming back. My assumption then is quite simple - Trials needs to be able to cater for every type of rider Removing the choice from the club would therefore limit the choices available and consequently will result in losses of riders from some clubs - Probably in the south more than the north because of terrain - What the youth will make of it I have no idea but they do like to hop! IMHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dixie Posted August 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2009 Hmmm - I have been giving this further thought ( o dear you all say ! ) and I have tried to look at it from the Punters viewpoint. We currently have 2 sets of rules in place to cater for each of the preferences , Stop or No-Stop - The local club decides what type of trial to run assessing the following main points: 1: What type of terrain they have available 2: What is the make up of their local riders (youth - O-40's etc etc) With this information they can then decide which type of trial to run to cater for their customers. If the punter levels are dropping, then there is something wrong (obviously),but with the rules just being one component of the whole trial experience at that particular club, then I would argue defining the rules alone to just one type is not the answer ( if the objective here is to grow the sport) I certainly don't have the detailed knowledge of John Collins or many other knowledgeable folk on here regarding trials, but I do know how to run a successful company and customer service and quality of your product will help to keep the customers coming back. My assumption then is quite simple - Trials needs to be able to cater for every type of rider Removing the choice from the club would therefore limit the choices available and consequently will result in losses of riders from some clubs - Probably in the south more than the north because of terrain - What the youth will make of it I have no idea but they do like to hop! IMHO I thought you had retired from all thing trialey ,it good to see you cant stay away.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_scorpa3 Posted August 17, 2009 Report Share Posted August 17, 2009 It's a shame that this thread has gone from observing rules to ACU bashing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john collins Posted August 17, 2009 Report Share Posted August 17, 2009 Dixie - You have totally lost me now You seem to honestly believe that all I say is from an Officials point of view - and that you speak from a riders point of view. I would hazzard a guess that you have never ridden anything like as much as I have. I would hazzard a guess that I still ride more than you do - so I lose track of your train of thought. You have managed to make me laugh howver when you state - You have to agree " we" pay your wages . No you do not - no-one pays my wages - and as I have stated on this Forum many times - No ACU Commitee person , No ACU Commitee Chairman, No ACU Chairman overall and no ACU Director gets paid - so for sure nobody is paying my wages - but the very thought of it has amused me - as well as you have amused me by saying that I see things just as an Official and not a rider - so I am going to forgive you for past missaprehensions and wish you luck in your future posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the addict Posted August 17, 2009 Report Share Posted August 17, 2009 (edited) Going non stop will down this way loose riders in events, I have spoken to a few over the past week and I am sure it will happen, I remember the last time we went non stop and the riders who packed in including myself. My reason for packing in was the massive change in the sport overnight when I was used to nothing else but hopping and stopping, I did give it a good go but it was never the same. I have a feeling alot of the lads will pack up,they like Trials because of the tricks and will dearly miss that,hopefully many will stick with it but I do feel alot will move on to other sports from what I've seen. I can remember the first non stop trial I did (Oxford Ixion I think) there was a young lad who would regualry come 1st or 2nd on the hard route, he pretty much came last and soon left the sport. Yes the youth will adapt to it if it goes non stop,but many wont and I am pretty sure its the hopping about and tricks that gets the young lads started into the sport in the first place not ease of riding Trials. I dont beleive people go and watch a club trial and think "oh I cant do that sport - I'll never learn how to hop about like that" when in the main most of the field are doing the B and C routes anyway and from my experience the new guys into the sport including all the over 40's Ive ridden with want to know how to hop. The B and C routes where the majority of riders are doesnt require hopping anyway so changing the rules wont effect the majority anyway it will only effect the A route, I wish I could have gone to the ESTC trial yesterday and asked the A route riders their thoughts, yes I may be wrong but I have a feeling I,m not. I like riding up North and alot of those trials are non stop anyway and pretty much have always been,as I said previously down here things are very different due to the land we have. I still think the A route down here will get dangerous to make sections non stop in limited venues where you have to go at something if your not quite ready for it. Going back to a recent Stratford trial section 10 i think, Scorpa3 thought this section would take some marks, it could be ridden non stop and pretty much no A route riders dropped any marks on it all day (correct me if I'm wrong Pete sorry,may have been another section) now what would need changing to this section to take any marks on an already non stop section? my guess would be up something even bigger or even less run up, the first climb needed a spot on approach if you went slightly off balance or not quite ready the result would be a big crash same went for the drop back down the hill. Edited August 17, 2009 by The Addict Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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