gizza5 Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 Why is the BTC and WTC not sustainable? WTC you honestly think the factories will throw money at it with Trucks, Minders, Mechanics, hangers on etc etc for years to come??????? I am not sure? BTC I think will survive. Just my thoughts.................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big john Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 Did Rob Edwards marry a girl from Edinburgh ? Not Rob, but his elder brother Eric married a girl from Edinburgh who actually did ride in trials for a short while, Sheila I think her first name was. She was a member of either the Melville or Edinburgh Southern clubs. It was a long time ago, but my Dad knew her. I remember her helping lay out some sections near Bathgate and then a lot of years later my Dad spoke to her at the SSDT as her husband was competeing, but as I said was a long time ago! Big John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 WTC you honestly think the factories will throw money at it with Trucks, Minders, Mechanics, hangers on etc etc for years to come??????? I am not sure? BTC I think will survive. Just my thoughts.................... The factories are not "throwing money at it" at the moment. Gas Gas have Adam, montesa through Honda/repsol tony laia and Fuji, beta Doug and jeroni sherco cabby. I am guessing all the others have importer funding. The trucks are all old, the gas gas one is ten years old the beta one i'm not sure about mont one is from the road racing team I think, sherco is again a few years old and not massive. Minders and mechanics well I doubt its too much. In fact the only casualty on the wtc front has been Scorpa, which wasn't massive in any case. So from going on what happened this year, it is sustainable at this level or more would have disappeared from events. Much more important is the credibility of the championships which needs more entrants. Is no stop the answer? Is section severity the answer? Why have 4 or 5 french hopefuls quit? Why has Shaun morris gone? how long can Oliveras cary on? What happened to Gibert from spain? Are these riders going to come back/would have carried on if it goes no stop? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 I've heard a rumour Conner was seriously thinking about giving the world rounds (or at least the british round) a go if they changed to no stop.It's been my ambition to ride a world round for quite a few years, around 2003/2004 the likes of Gareth Andrews, David Pie, Liam Walker, Andy Perry were riding in local world rounds so back then I could have stood a chance of competing in one (I wish I had) and not coming last, this was under the stop for a one ruling. I bet these same riders would struggle in the support class in a world round now. When I heard they were going back to full no stop I did honestly think I may be able to go and have a attempt at the Scottish world round, I'm probably dreaming though! I don't know who you are or what your standard is, but if you could ride the junior class as a guest would you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 WTC you honestly think the factories will throw money at it with Trucks, Minders, Mechanics, hangers on etc etc for years to come??????? I am not sure? BTC I think will survive. Just my thoughts.................... Perhaps we are both jumping the gun and maybe the fim are too. Its only a few years since the youth junior pro steps have been set up and maybe a few more would come through in the next few years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trialsnutterman Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 I don't know who you are or what your standard is, but if you could ride the junior class as a guest would you? At the moment i.e. under the current rules no I wouldn't, if they changed the rules yes I would consider it but I'd prefer to ride as a competitive rider even if that meant riding the harder route, as I said before though I might be dreaming a bit (lot) and it may just be that rules won't make the difference in severity like I hope it might. Fingers crossed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted August 22, 2009 Report Share Posted August 22, 2009 At the moment i.e. under the current rules no I wouldn't, if they changed the rules yes I would consider it but I'd prefer to ride as a competitive rider even if that meant riding the harder route, as I said before though I might be dreaming a bit (lot) and it may just be that rules won't make the difference in severity like I hope it might. Fingers crossed So its the severity thats wrong then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy Posted August 22, 2009 Report Share Posted August 22, 2009 Nigel Dabster Posted Yesterday, 11:53 PMQUOTE (trialsnutterman @ Aug 21 2009, 11:17 PM) * At the moment i.e. under the current rules no I wouldn't, if they changed the rules yes I would consider it but I'd prefer to ride as a competitive rider even if that meant riding the harder route, as I said before though I might be dreaming a bit (lot) and it may just be that rules won't make the difference in severity like I hope it might. Fingers crossed So its the severity thats wrong then? OOOHH great idea!!! let's make the WTC so easy that everybody in the sport of trials can ride it. That way it will TRULY be a world competition. Let's face it- it is supposed to be hard, so that only the best of the best are competing. If they had no competitors than I am certain the severity would be lowered. With no stop I think the size of the obstacles will stay the same and the section set up may give them 2 feet more run at it, at most. I will now go crawl into my hole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldilocks Posted August 22, 2009 Report Share Posted August 22, 2009 The factories are not "throwing money at it" at the moment. Gas Gas have Adam, montesa through Honda/repsol tony laia and Fuji, beta Doug and jeroni sherco cabby. I am guessing all the others have importer funding.The trucks are all old, the gas gas one is ten years old the beta one i'm not sure about mont one is from the road racing team I think, sherco is again a few years old and not massive. Minders and mechanics well I doubt its too much. In fact the only casualty on the wtc front has been Scorpa, which wasn't massive in any case. So from going on what happened this year, it is sustainable at this level or more would have disappeared from events. Much more important is the credibility of the championships which needs more entrants. Is no stop the answer? Is section severity the answer? Why have 4 or 5 french hopefuls quit? Why has Shaun morris gone? how long can Oliveras cary on? What happened to Gibert from spain? Are these riders going to come back/would have carried on if it goes no stop? On the costs I can t agree dabster, there was a photo at the start of the year showing Raga and Dabill with the Gas Gas personnel which of course I cant find. Now if that number of people are even just attending the european rounds let alone Japan thats an awful lot of money. People dont work for nothing. When Tarres came to Bill Wilks practising in 89 he had a small truck by todays standards and his "Team" at that point was his brother and another guy who did the cooking washing etc. Most of the top blokes until recently had more people than that minding never mind working on the bikes, preparing food etc . If bikes are not selling then the factories cannot continue to employ a lot of people to support two or three riders. The WTC is surviving on the money the privateers in the 125 and junior classes chuck at it, thats where the entries are coming from. I do agree with you that we have to get riders of the calibre of Bruand, Morris etc back riding but that can only happen if a they can afford it b they enjoy it and want to ride. at the momnet either point a, point b or more likely both are not present. Back to changing the rules, this is all the FIM can do, the rest is down to the organisers to make the sections accessible to more riders Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted August 22, 2009 Report Share Posted August 22, 2009 (edited) You would think the easiest way to reduce costs would be to ban minders completely - no one in the section besides the rider with no Radio's either - man & machine against the elements - on his/her own! But... how would they be able to attack the big elements without minders? Again, this change puts tremendous pressure on section design & severity. You could argue a case that the riders should have MORE minders! simply because if the sections are similar to what they were doing this year but with a little more run up, then how the hell is the minder going to get round the section fast enough to be in all the key places? They haven't thought this through me thinks! Edited August 22, 2009 by AtomAnt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gizza5 Posted August 22, 2009 Report Share Posted August 22, 2009 Perhaps we are both jumping the gun and maybe the fim are too. Its only a few years since the youth junior pro steps have been set up and maybe a few more would come through in the next few years? My point being the age of the vehicles has no relivance, still costs the same amount to transport them round the world? Combine this with the numbers of hangers on then the running costs must be high? Maybe a Team Manager van and a mechanic from the factory and then the rest of the money could be spread round to give support to more riders boosting the field slightly, that is probably the reason why riders dissapear..................... no funding? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trialsnutterman Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 So its the severity thats wrong then? For me personally, yes the severity stops me riding them but I don't think the severity is wrong (it has to be that hard to take the marks) just the rules, if you make everybody do the sections without stopping you'll automatically make the sections harder so the severity can be dropped a little, how much I'm not sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trialsnutterman Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 OOOHH great idea!!! let's make the WTC so easy that everybody in the sport of trials can ride it. That way it will TRULY be a world competition. Let's face it- it is supposed to be hard, so that only the best of the best are competing. If they had no competitors than I am certain the severity would be lowered. With no stop I think the size of the obstacles will stay the same and the section set up may give them 2 feet more run at it, at most. I will now go crawl into my hole. That's not what I meant or said. The sections are made hard enough to give the riders a good challenge and produce a winner at the end of the day so they will never be easy enough for the masses and I don't think anybody would ever want to see that happen, I would think most people like to see the riders pushing there limits not going around for 1 or 2 all day. You may be right that it won't make any difference to the size of the steps, that will depend on the clerk of the course he can decided to give the riders slightly more room in the corners or leave it tight and reduce the size of the obstacles either way though it will make it easier for the lesser riders to have a go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony283 Posted August 27, 2009 Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 (edited) Having followed this thread from start to finish it would appear there are many strong views, some of which have not been thoroughly thought through. Trials are trials no matter what set of rules are in force, the skill factor required to negotiate hazards has not changed through the years, currently some hazards are beyond the scope of both the clubman and National Champion. Consider this, who is buying the latest factory machine and why ? Surely it is not on the results of the WTC? No, it is the percieved chance of "if I had one of those I could do better!" The only way to go IMHO, is Non Stop, where perhaps a newbie can envisage that , just maybe he can get into a fun sport without risking life and limb. Full considerations to both sides are explored on my blog in THE STOP NOSTOP NONSENSE Tony Edited August 27, 2009 by tony283 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timp Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 Looks like hopping rules spoilt the inter centre team trial this year with big delays in the sections leading to time problems for the riders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.