bowellsyboy Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 If the world rounds do go to non stop does anyone think this will change the order of riders at the top. Will bou and raga still be dominant over everyone else and will it help dougie get that 100th win. He grew up and rode at the highest level with the old non stop rules where as some of the younger riders havent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted August 29, 2009 Report Share Posted August 29, 2009 Looks like hopping rules spoilt the inter centre team trial this year with big delays in the sections leading to time problems for the riders. No it was time limits in the section not applied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gizza5 Posted August 29, 2009 Report Share Posted August 29, 2009 No it was time limits in the section not applied. Time limits may work at WTC and BTC level, but at what level of competition do the organisers choose not to time the rider on the sections? You were struggling to finnish some of the Novagar rounds in the time limit, with the hoppers spending too long in the section, going back to No Stop will now help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted August 29, 2009 Report Share Posted August 29, 2009 Time limits may work at WTC and BTC level, but at what level of competition do the organisers choose not to time the rider on the sections? You were struggling to finnish some of the Novagar rounds in the time limit, with the hoppers spending too long in the section, going back to No Stop will now help! And maybe some of the trick sections will be replaced and the series will focus on the riders it is aimed at. The one round I rode in 09 was spoilt a little by hoppers. Is this an argument again for one for a stop? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timp Posted August 29, 2009 Report Share Posted August 29, 2009 (edited) Is this an argument again for one for a stop? One for a stop was the best compromise but it needs to be enforced across the board to work. This is the only sport I can think of where the interpretation of the rules varies according to what part of the country you ride or how a club or individual wants to do it. How would the football league work if all the clubs didn't use the same rules? Edited August 29, 2009 by Timp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uhoh7 Posted August 29, 2009 Report Share Posted August 29, 2009 (edited) Wow epic thread WHen i first heard about n-stop in wtc, i thought--ugh. But after reading all this stuff, frankly I'm all for it, just to see what will happen. Stop=1 seems to make most sense to me, and it could be easily monitored at the world level, just as lap times are accurately tracked at motoGP and MX, with a sending unit on each rider or bike. Full stops should be easy to capture. As to interest levels, one factor has to be noise and filth, which well educated youth are increasingly aware of. I got my daughter an OSET electric bike, and crude as it is (for cost reasons), I wish I had something like it. I've seen no serious efforts to develop what is surely possible, a 150lb electric bike capable of 1.5 hours or more, with batteries that could be changed out. Why not? Trials has always been the "greener" motorbike discipline and it does not have huge HP needs---it's the best suited to electric of all the classes. Electric trials would draw some much needed media attention as well. Because of this thread, I went back to watch the old WTCs on youtube. I could not really find any no-stop stuff from the seventies, please post a link if you do, but it was interesting to watch i.e. the 1988 WTC, which had alot less hopping, that's for sure, and the sections seemed bigger and more open. It seems that the sections have changed with the skill levels of the top riders, because you don't see anyone remotely in the class of the current top 6 in 88 or 90. Machines are better no doubt as well. You have to wonder: are the current machines designed to work as well in n-stop as hop? Edited August 29, 2009 by uhoh7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trialsnutterman Posted August 30, 2009 Report Share Posted August 30, 2009 And maybe some of the trick sections will be replaced and the series will focus on the riders it is aimed at. The one round I rode in 09 was spoilt a little by hoppers.Is this an argument again for one for a stop? Is the Dabster finally swaying! I do like the stop for a one rules, especially when they where first introduced as they were observed a bit more to the book but I don't think they should be reintroduced unless the world rounds go that way. If the world rounds do go full no stop it would be a good opportunity to go back to one set of rules for all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 Is the Dabster finally swaying!I do like the stop for a one rules, especially when they where first introduced as they were observed a bit more to the book but I don't think they should be reintroduced unless the world rounds go that way. If the world rounds do go full no stop it would be a good opportunity to go back to one set of rules for all. I don't mind either way as it happens, but think if in this country everyone has one set of rules some large minority will be unhappy enough to give up and thats the worry. we need everyone to stay in the sport and add to it. Without a doubt there are some trials that need no stop, but to think that this change would suddenly be the panacea to all our woes is misguided. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gizza5 Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 Without a doubt there are some trials that need no stop, but to think that this change would suddenly be the panacea to all our woes is misguided. Agreed I for one don't think it will please everyone and who knows if it will make people leave, stay or come into the sport, however, the latter that is to encorouge people in to our sport I would hope that 'No Stop' is the rules that would succeed. Remember we have tried the stop = 1 mark, which was quickly replaced for Stop and Hop! not sure why? These rules only favour the better riders FACT !! and leaves the main bulk of the entry struggling. Truth of the matter is you won't please everyone, and when and if the change to the rules happen, I am sure we will re-invent the wheel again! and in a few years have another set of rules to ride with!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 Everybody has spoken about either no stop or stop=1 - Is that the limit of the trials worlds imagination? You see time and again in riders reports of when trials are too easy, that the riders complain that if they lose a 5 then they have no way of pulling it back. So surely one of the best and most exciting ways to liven up the top end WTC ( and still have it open to the lesser mortals) is use the Gate system. I really don't know why this hasn't been seriously considered ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gizza5 Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 is use the Gate system. I really don't know why this hasn't been seriously considered ? That could be next but does anyone use this system now to give us any feedback? I think ishy has talked about this before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 GIZZA5 Posted Today, 12:30 PMQUOTE (AtomAnt @ Aug 31 2009, 05:17 PM) * is use the Gate system. I really don't know why this hasn't been seriously considered ? That could be next but does anyone use this system now to give us any feedback? I think ishy has talked about this before. But we would all have to get used to "The guy with the most points wins" and that would totally destroy my explanation to people that trials is like golf............ Yep I being a smart I kinda like the gate idea, opportunity for big reward if rider does it right, but if make 1 mistake all points for that section are lost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 That could be next but does anyone use this system now to give us any feedback? I think ishy has talked about this before. Never tried it myself but imagine the trouble getting observers to do it right. Also trials like the Scott the ssdt and the multi day events manage fine with the marking they have so are we to have 3 systems? Wouldn't gate trials put people off rather than encourage to try the sport? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ishy Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 I think gate trials is way too harsh for club level, but would be perfect for world championship trials, it is also far enough away from club rules to not be taken up by clubs just to keep in line with the FIM. The world championship circus is a completely different game from the sport we all do, so why not except this fact and stop messing with club trials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copemech Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 I think gate trials is way too harsh for club level, but would be perfect for world championship trials, it is also far enough away from club rules to not be taken up by clubs just to keep in line with the FIM.The world championship circus is a completely different game from the sport we all do, so why not except this fact and stop messing with club trials. We actually have a modified gate trial version that Tommi Avahla brought fourth. Totally different really, yet with gates! We have done it a few times and it IS a blast for all! Great way to break up any boredom in a standard club trial, stop or not! Seemed riders of all levels liked the format! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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