Sense At Last

[atomant]

Yeah , what Dabster said - why will No Stop bring in spectators?

Edited September 6, 2009 by AtomAnt

[nigel dabster]

What do you actualy know about gate trials Dabster? have you ridden one, set one up, do you know the rules, or is it more of a mate said it was shlte, so it must be.

I think they tried some French spin off , of Gate trials, it gave partial scores even if you did foot in the section, again no matter what rules are used at world championship level, they have to be fair for alll riders and followed to the letter of the rule, this being leinient by observers because some rider tried hard or didn't stop for that long is making the whole game a joke to the public

When I first was told how gate trials worked by the man who invented it, at first I thought he was talking out of his backside.

After putting a few on and at least trying it, I can say I was wrong! and I think it would solve more problems than it would create at world championship level.

No I haven't had anything to do with gate trials, as you know, except to watch one in santigosa. But its not that straightforward a change, or even possible in the near future, surely?

My thoughts are that there are far too many variables in a gate trial which would add nothing to the tv and media coverage being sort.

Would a gate trial be easy for spectators to understand? No is my guess?

Would it be stop or no stop? If no stop lets try that change first?

Would the current counting by team managers make the last few sections a mathmatical exercise?

Would the juniors ride gate style? Dunno

Would the youth? dunno

Would the british championship go gate if the worlds were? Probably

how would the european championships cope? do they need gate or not? would this weekend have been gate and no gate stop and no stop?

would a single rider be encouraged back to wtc level if it were gate?

I could go on but as the majority are happy/will avoid change unless the Gate thingy is the best thing since the tin can, barbed wire and sliced bread I bet most trials are still no or stop in 2019, if we can find somewhere we are allowed to/can ride.

[ishy]

I think it would improve spectator viewing, as the trial progresses, the riders would have to earn more points to keep in contention, also the sections have so many different line variable

[atomant]

I reckon the FIM should be bold and go for this. Prating around with the rules and going non-stop is gonna make sod all difference. (except p*** off the riders its already got)

Edited September 6, 2009 by AtomAnt

[nigel dabster]

I think it would improve spectator viewing, as the trial progresses, the riders would have to earn more points to keep in contention, also the sections have so many different line variable

[nigel dabster]

Also I just cannot see how any spectators could keep scores, regardless of your statement above. I am not saying it won't or couldn't work just that as like I said before its mending something thats not broken.

[atomant]

Also I just cannot see how any spectators could keep scores, regardless of your statement above. I am not saying it won't or couldn't work just that as like I said before its mending something thats not broken.

But thats the point - The WTC IS broken. After all , thats what the FIM think and thats why they are changing it.

Edited September 6, 2009 by AtomAnt

[nigel dabster]

But thats the point - The WTC IS broken. After all , thats what the FIM think and thats why they are changing it.

Right enough then, the whole thing is broken? If there is nothing worthwhile at this level then why bother to change anything? Lets tell all the riders they had better ride a gate trial or there's no championship? I understand that ragas petition has most names on it so what would happen if it were a gate trial?

I am not saying its perfect what we have but its not completely useless either. there are some issues that need to be addressed, and my argument is that no stop or stop, we need to look at ways of encouraging greater participation at this moment or at least the next few years. How do we get riders like Ross and Sam haslam and lee sampson to get to a stage where they can ride the top route, or at least carry on with the juniors like to 25 or summat.

Would gate or no stop do this?

[bilc0]

or at least carry on with the juniors like to 25 or summat.

Why would they want to waste there best year's messing around in junior's,would'nt they be better off getting onto an Enduro bike and getting further and much better money riding Enduro.

This is something i can't understand with Trials,how can someone in there 20's be a junior,a junior means they are a boy or girl,there not they are a man or woman.

Edited September 6, 2009 by bilc0

[atomant]

Right enough then, the whole thing is broken? If there is nothing worthwhile at this level then why bother to change anything? Lets tell all the riders they had better ride a gate trial or there's no championship? I understand that ragas petition has most names on it so what would happen if it were a gate trial?

I am not saying its perfect what we have but its not completely useless either. there are some issues that need to be addressed, and my argument is that no stop or stop, we need to look at ways of encouraging greater participation at this moment or at least the next few years. How do we get riders like Ross and Sam haslam and lee sampson to get to a stage where they can ride the top route, or at least carry on with the juniors like to 25 or summat.

Would gate or no stop do this?

Lets face it, there is only ever 2 riders who can ride the top route and win - maybe now and then Fujinami and Fajardo pop in for a look, but here we could have a lesser rider technically, beating Bou or Raga by using some nounce and tactics.

There needs to be a way to make it possible for others to win to make it more exciting. It needs to become exciting to entice more of a following to attract a wider audience for commercial purposes.

Its broken because there is no money and never will be unless it creates more of a wider appeal. I wish I had the answer but it needs something

In relation to getting riders to the top, they need to train with the very best ( Bou and Raga of course). It would take something very special for our riders to better them without this.

Edited September 6, 2009 by AtomAnt

[helloyes]

Yer but there's no point having spectator's if you hav'nt got the rider's,No stop at a WTC still won't give you the mass of rider's to keep a mass of spectator's happy,it's all gone down the road to far for a straight NO Stop format to work at a WTC.

Whatever rule they use at WTC level club level will still use whatever rule they want to use.

As we've already heard on this forum rider number's at club trials are healthy in the UK.

There will be more riders ? not the three or four we have now, more will be able to get to the ends cards and therefore more would want to give it a go , three or four riders wont keep spectator numbers up !! So why please them ? maybe there does need to be a different rule but no stop would be better than what we have now, maybe if they all stopped arguing and sat down with the Fim they could come up with something ? After all there lively hood depends on it !!!!

As for healthy entries down here in sunny gloucestershire at least 3 trials have been cancelled due to lack of entries, to my knowledge this year

[bilc0]

There will be more riders ?

But will there,here's the results from today.

Championship Results

1. Toni Bou - 21

2. Takahisa Fujinami - 29

3. Jeroni Fajardo - 42

4. Adam Raga - 43

5. Albert Cabestany - 59

6. Marc Freixa - 72

7. James Dabill - 81

8. Daniel Oliveras - 89

9. Loris Gubian - 97

10. Alexz Wigg - 101

11. Dougie Lampkin - 105 (7 cleans, 2 x 1)

12. Michael Brown - 105 (7 cleans, 0 x 1)

13. Henri Himmanen - 139

There's some handy rider's there losing alot of point's.If they went no stop they would have to make the section's equally as hard,no lesser rider would have a chance.

[the addict]

As for healthy entries down here in sunny gloucestershire at least 3 trials have been cancelled due to lack of entries, to my knowledge this year

Theres the worst recession on for decades, the weathers been ****ing ****e and most Western Centre trials are pre enter, many like me cant pre enter a trial due to work or other commitments, i doubt its the stop rules

[the addict]

Watched quite a few Novice riders today at the Yennards, most stop alot to look where to go next or before an obstacle, no they dont stop for long and balance but they do stop and I think they will be hit hard by the non stop rules if observed correctly. Also they stop alot when they dab or dont get over something, making them go at stuff they're really not ready for is going to end up in some big offs at the B and C route level down here. I've got no problem with going non stop but it does worry me for Novice riders and the lads who know nothing else.

Edited September 6, 2009 by The Addict

[martin belair]

If you think about it, in certain respects, a typical WC section it is a gate section already, just without the score.. Take a young WC rider's attempt on a section. He can get through the first tough bit and maybe the second tougher bit but he gets stopped at the final toughest bit. His score does not reflect his performance for most of the section. Sadly, he gets the same score as someone that crashes just after the start gate.

Right now we have 2 types of Gate trial. The US system of clean or nothing and the French system of Open Free Rules that count gates and dabs.

Both systems have their positives, but Gate system is Do or Die and Open Free scoring system is too complex, too many points..

One idea is a simple 1-2-3 scoring. Most points wins.

For example: Dabs and gates are counted. Gate is a + score and dab is a - score

Each section has 3 gates only, with values of 1, 2, 3 so max gate score +6. Dabs are counted to -3. More than 3 dabs is a failure. Max -3.

Edited September 6, 2009 by Martin Belair