copemech Posted August 30, 2009 Report Share Posted August 30, 2009 It was suggested to me a couple of years ago that the bronze bush idea is probably the best thing for both the brake & linkage as needle rollers aren't really suited to the minimal movement they're doing in both places. They prefer to have full rotation ie a turning shaft rather than the maybe 45deg forward & back they get in these 2 places. I agree that the seals aren't the best but after owning a gasser in the 90s before with the separate seals outboard of the narrow bearings which always tried turning inside out when you worked on them that the intergrated seals are ok as last as you keep the maintenence up Although I have had no problem with the bronze in the brake pedal, I am just not sure how it would react under the high pressure loading of the dog bone links? The "stiction" factor comes to mind as a possible issue. Sealing is still an issue as well, yet in the brake pedal, the grease is what repells the water and such. I have heard some older bikes used bronze bushings and such, not sure which or what, but they got away from it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadianstrom Posted August 30, 2009 Report Share Posted August 30, 2009 Although I have had no problem with the bronze in the brake pedal, I am just not sure how it would react under the high pressure loading of the dog bone links? The "stiction" factor comes to mind as a possible issue. Sealing is still an issue as well, yet in the brake pedal, the grease is what repells the water and such. I have heard some older bikes used bronze bushings and such, not sure which or what, but they got away from it. i am interested in this discussion because the progressive linkage in my ole 93 Aprilia Climber is loose and thought about replacing them with an inner bronze bushing ( smaller diameter snug on bolt) and an outer bronze bushing (snug in dog bone) with a grease fitting drilled into housing and through the outer bushing and greasing after every ride. I believe there is room for the grease fittings. I did wonder about the stiction, kind of a damping effect maybe but I'm not doing huge stuff. Do you think this would be a low maintenance, ridable solution? thanks for any opinions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony27 Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 (edited) I wasn't convinced enough to try making a set of phosphur bronze bushings either, partly the old tech solution & partly the stiction side of things. I don't think phosphur bronze running on phosphur bronze is a good idea, likely to pick up/seize. Best is 1 hard material on 1 soft The sleeves I made from toolsteel were because the originals were able to be filed & were mainly as an experiment to see what difference giving them a hard skin would make. There was no cost to me in having them nitrided as there is a minimum weight charge to have it done & work let me send with some other things to be done. So far they're lasting better than the factory ones Edited August 31, 2009 by tony27 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copemech Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 I wasn't convinced enough to try making a set of phosphur bronze bushings either, partly the old tech solution & partly the stiction side of things. I don't think phosphur bronze running on phosphur bronze is a good idea, likely to pick up/seize. Best is 1 hard material on 1 softThe sleeves I made from toolsteel were because the originals were able to be filed & were mainly as an experiment to see what difference giving them a hard skin would make. There was no cost to me in having them nitrided as there is a minimum weight charge to have it done & work let me send with some other things to be done. So far they're lasting better than the factory ones Agreed, do not run bronze on bronze. I have little doubt that the nitride treated hard bushes may hold up a bet better, while the bearings themselves have gone to crap! In the "non roller" scheme, my mind takes me to something like a ceramic bearing and a stainless bush insert. Inert to corrosion, the grease still has to keep the dirt out, and still not sure about stiction under the loads? Not cost effective! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony27 Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 I have little doubt that the nitride treated hard bushes may hold up a bet better, while the bearings themselves have gone to crap!In the "non roller" scheme, my mind takes me to something like a ceramic bearing and a stainless bush insert. Inert to corrosion, the grease still has to keep the dirt out, and still not sure about stiction under the loads? Not cost effective! So far the bearings are holding up well, can't quite remember if I made the bushes slightly tighter ie nominal size or not. Holes were reamed to the nominal size so were a better fit I wouldn't be so sure about using a ceramic bush as its not really known for its impact resistance, have heard plenty of stories of what happens to ceramic turbines in turbochargers when knocked Some guys with gassers fit grease nipples to their dogbones & carefully drill the bearings so they can regrease the bearings when they wash the bike, saves removing them to do it but things are pretty tight in there & I'd be worried about ripping them out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copemech Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 So far the bearings are holding up well, can't quite remember if I made the bushes slightly tighter ie nominal size or not. Holes were reamed to the nominal size so were a better fitI wouldn't be so sure about using a ceramic bush as its not really known for its impact resistance, have heard plenty of stories of what happens to ceramic turbines in turbochargers when knocked Some guys with gassers fit grease nipples to their dogbones & carefully drill the bearings so they can regrease the bearings when they wash the bike, saves removing them to do it but things are pretty tight in there & I'd be worried about ripping them out Just an abstract thought really, Now try drilling those bearings, not for me! Although, I wish they could be manufactured that way! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 While on this subject....has anyone managed to change the bushes on an 06 or an 07 (adjustable) shock? Best of balance. Neo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony27 Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 The kits are available from sherco so it must possible, they may have a stepped bore with the 2 sides different sizes. Pop the seals & measure to fit out which side to push them out then use a socket as the drift Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voleurz Posted September 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 In my shock that im doing right now 02 one side has a bump stop so to speak so they can only go in and out one way. they are a bitch im going to use the press at work to put them in now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 The 02 to 05 are no where near as hard to do as the 06 onwards shocks. Best of luck. Neo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voleurz Posted September 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 what did they do in 05? I got mine all back together now thanks, just used a old bearing that fit on the outside of the bearing but still into the hole, with a long bolt and several washers. easy once I found the right stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 what did they do in 05? Same as the 02 if I remember right. Best of balance. Neo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voleurz Posted September 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 ok. thats cool, I meant 06 and onwards DOH haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony27 Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 They changed to a shock that likes dumping its oil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vmomsen Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 Hi Guys, been following this thread with interest. My problem on my 06 290 is that there seems to be excessive "play" in the rear end - vertically. I removed the rear shock thinking it was the lower bearing on the shock ( Rose Joint ). However, on inspection this is fine. Looking at the dogbones, there is some play in the bearing. Minimal but there. Then there is that triangulated linkage which connects to the swingarm. That needle bearing has alot of play. I am in 2 minds whether to just buy a full bearing kit or try to eliminate the play by just replacing the bearing on the swingarm. Anybody else have this problem? When I put the bike on a stand ---- the rear end moves about 5mm up and down. Feels very loose. Is this a common problem or something unique to my bike? Thanks for any input you can give. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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