dsergison Posted September 9, 2009 Report Share Posted September 9, 2009 hello, I've read about Ian experimenting with nicer Kelly controls... and Li-xxx battery packs. I work at Caterpillar in powertrain engineering. I work in the same industrial park as firefly energy. http://www.fireflyenergy.com/index.php?opt...ge&Itemid=1 if you haven't heard about them, and I'm guessing you haven't... they make a structurally different (but chemically same) lead acid battery. they can be fully discharged (to zero) without damage... last 4x more cycles than anything, etc..... the problem is, they currently only sell "group 31" size batteries for on-highway trucks. anyway, getting them to offer a motorcycle sized battery is likely years off.... but perhaps it's possible. or, I could pay $500 for a group 31, cut it up and make about 5 smaller amp hour packs? eeek! anyway... food for thought. next order of tinkering is brushless motors and speed controls. anybody try that yet? brushless technology is ~%80 efficient vs brushed ~%50 so, you would get quite a bit more runtime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flynz4me Posted December 24, 2009 Report Share Posted December 24, 2009 Definitely going brushless on my daughter's 16.0. Thought I'd try out the Golden Motors 10,000w system on 25.6v of LifePo4 batteries which ARE the best chemistry on the market. Highest discharge rating, fastest charging, and will deliver mo' power than an Energizer Bunny on crack (Pardon the cliche). Here is a link to the motor... Battery Link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwhy Posted December 26, 2009 Report Share Posted December 26, 2009 Definitely going brushless on my daughter's 16.0. Thought I'd try out the Golden Motors 10,000w system on 25.6v of LifePo4 batteries which ARE the best chemistry on the market. Highest discharge rating, fastest charging, and will deliver mo' power than an Energizer Bunny on crack (Pardon the cliche).Here is a link to the motor... Battery Link 10kw is a bit ott on such a small bike ( thats the sort of motor they put on full size motor bikes that do 60mph) look more in the range of a 2-3 kw motor max ( will still be to much power for a small rider ) and if you are comfortable with lipo batteries this chemistry is the best bang for your money ( smaller, lighter ,higher discharge rates and cheaper than lifepo4) the best way to upgrade one of these small bikes is to replace the batteries ( with a better chemistry of your choice ) and up grade the controller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flynz4me Posted December 26, 2009 Report Share Posted December 26, 2009 (edited) 10kw is a bit ott on such a small bike ( thats the sort of motor they put on full size motor bikes that do 60mph) look more in the range of a 2-3 kw motor max ( will still be to much power for a small rider ) and if you are comfortable with lipo batteries this chemistry is the best bang for your money ( smaller, lighter ,higher discharge rates and cheaper than lifepo4) the best way to upgrade one of these small bikes is to replace the batteries ( with a better chemistry of your choice ) and up grade the controller. 10-4 I understand what you are saying, but that motor comes in 96v and at 25.6v it will only put out 2500w. I fly giant scale airplanes on electric, I know all about lipo's Love A123's and LifePo4's for their stable, safe characteristics. I'd feel like father of the year if a lipo detonated while my daughter was riding her 16.0 Edited December 26, 2009 by flynz4me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwhy Posted December 26, 2009 Report Share Posted December 26, 2009 10-4 I understand what you are saying, but that motor comes in 96v and at 25.6v it will only put out 2500w. I fly giant scale airplanes on electric, I know all about lipo's Love A123's and LifePo4's for their stable, safe characteristics. I'd feel like father of the year if a lipo detonated while my daughter was riding her 16.0 Know what you mean about lipo ( think safe sacks and a good BMS ) and all is well ) 2.5kw will be ok ( dependent on gearing ) I dont know what the max speed is on these little bikes, I am running a 170kv 3.5kw outrunner motor on a trials push bike geared for 22mph and that thing can have me off the back just as quick as my beta rev 270 used to ( with a highly modded controller ). I love these little bikes and my understanding is there is a upgrade to a 750w brushed motor which I think with the right controller will be the best combo also with a different bat chemistry. I would love to see videos if you do upgrade to the golden motor with lifepo4, will make one hell of a small bike . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juanroberts Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 As soon as someone finds and tests the cheap ticket, please let me know. We have an old 16.0 with 10AH batteries, and a new 36V 16.0, and would be wiling to try something new in order to 'equalize' them. Would it make sense to take the motor apart to clean the brushes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwhy Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 (edited) As soon as someone finds and tests the cheap ticket, please let me know. We have an old 16.0 with 10AH batteries, and a new 36V 16.0, and would be wiling to try something new in order to 'equalize' them.Would it make sense to take the motor apart to clean the brushes? If the old one is 24v then just over volt it to 36v but you would have to sort out a 36v controller. I know when these bikes first came out they used chinese motors and easy to come by controllers from china. The motors are fairly robust and can be over volted ( as long as they do not get to hot ). edit : I just have had a look at the spares for these bike and it looks like you will also have to change the motor sprocket. The controller will be a very simple mod to convert it to 36v ( It maybe just a power resistor on the input, you will have to compare the 24v and the 36v controllers to find the resistor value) Edited December 27, 2009 by gwhy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samandkimberly Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 (edited) As soon as someone finds and tests the cheap ticket, please let me know. We have an old 16.0 with 10AH batteries, and a new 36V 16.0, and would be wiling to try something new in order to 'equalize' them.Would it make sense to take the motor apart to clean the brushes? I dunno about cleaning the brushes, but Oset was selling a complete 36V update kit for something like $200.00 including throttle, motor, controller, swingarm. Alternatively, you could just buy a 750W 36V motor from them (100.00) and buy the Kelly 36V controller that was discussed in a earlier post on this list. I just installed one of the Kelley controlers on my son's 36V Oset and it's a nice improvement, seemingly much more torque, better throttle response, and lots of software controls to play with. Installing the Kelley control is not rocket science but it does take a little care as it does not just drop in. You need to find a way to mount it to the frame (I used zip ties) in such a way that you can get to the programming end of the controller. I originally tried to make it a drop in exchange with the same connectors as the original (Ian was kind enough to send me a dead controller to pirate the wiring from) but you end up with a lot more connectors than you really need, and the standard Oset connectors are OK, but not the best - better to eliminate them and replace with the more robust ones that come with the Kelley. Wiring takes a little time to figure out, as there is no schematic for the Oset, and the Kelley diagram uses the main relay and throttle wiring differently - you lose the battery level monitor but gain an error LED. I could make up a schematic if anyone really wanted but I can't guarantee that the Oset color coding is consistent over all models. I'd love to play with batteries, but they're all very expensive -I have a hard time considering a battery upgrade that cost half the new cost of the bike! Sam Edited January 3, 2010 by samandkimberly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juanroberts Posted March 4, 2010 Report Share Posted March 4, 2010 I could make up a schematic if anyone really wanted I just received the Kelley. Can you provide a schemati? Thanks! John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael martin Posted March 11, 2010 Report Share Posted March 11, 2010 Did anyone come up with a wiring diagram for installing the KDS36100 100A controller on a new 36V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsergison Posted March 21, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2010 well.... much has transpired since I originally started this thread. I bought a Sherco Kid 50cc trials bike. it scares my son who just turned 4. I figured since he rides bicycles w/out trainers for about 5 miles he could handle it..... no, it's to much. He cant squeeze the brakes hard enough or modulate the throttle well enough to ride it. duh... I may have jumped the gun there. I think I'm going to sell it. Yesterday I bought a used 09 Oset 16/24. and a set of brand new 14ah batteries. the disk brakes he can operate. and I think he will be able to handle the more linear power fine by this summer. and it's so nice and quiet. I hope that when he outgrows it electric will have matured a bit more and he can get a bigger electric. or at least a real trials bike with higher quality components and a clutch. The Oset is bone stock. I did go through it fixing and adjusting little things, seems in decent order. it certainly doesn't need more power yet. so I think in the mean time I will concentrate on improving stuff like the cheap forks. And Firefly the battery company went out of business.... I was really hoping to try some of those out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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